Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World 3 => Custom Map Discussion => Colonial Space Map Discussion => Topic started by: AutoPost on November 01, 2018, 12:17:51 PM

Title: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: AutoPost on November 01, 2018, 12:17:51 PM
This topic is for discussion of map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=6736)

Author: yum234
Size: 144x144

Desc:
Cornucanis Style Map with Kajacx Integrated SuperSemiconductors. As toy gift for Jubilee we created new unit - SB (Stargate Blocker)! :) SB - friendly unit which player can control. By click on SB and then click on any destination Stargate player can move it and Stargate will be blocked (not work!). Control of SB possible only when game not paused. At any time you can change position of SB. Please enjoy JUBILEE CAKE! :) #BravoCornucanis #ThanksToKajacx #GoodLuck
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 01, 2018, 03:55:13 PM
D0m0nik, whether the cake and cherry (Stargate Blocker) on it was yummy?  ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 01, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
We've finally reached map #50! Thanks to everyone who has played the game mode and given us some great words of encouragement  ;D

I originally approached yum a few days ago and told him that since he's nearing map #50 I wanted to make a new script for him to celebrate the milestone. The script I proposed was for a new stargate boss fight but yum had a better idea, the stargate blocker! We may someday still see that boss I've envisioned, but for now this toy is much more versatile and can be used in a wider variety of maps  :)

Now let's talk about how it works... You start the map with several blockers. If you click one one, it will select it. Multi-select is not supported due to the nature of how the blockers move. After selecting a blocker, you'll see a red shadow appear under your mouse that will turn green when you mouse over an open stargate. Clicking the open stargate will send the blocker to the gate. When the blocker arrives, he will plug up the stargate and prevent it from interacting with the stargate network. Pretty simple overall, but it opens up the door for interesting new strategies.

There are a few drawbacks to the script though. The biggest one is that you can't interact with the blockers while paused. It's certainly not impossible to do with CRPL, it's something I can patch myself one day or someone else could patch if they were enterprising and wanted to improve the script. The problem is that it would be a little time consuming to make sure there are no major errors with the implementation since you'd essentially have to divide the script into a pause-friendly portion and a non pause-friendly portion. I've been working on game jams lately and have a new one starting today, so I only had a few days to knock out the script and wasn't able to fully make it support paused interaction.

Also note that there were a couple of improvements to the script I made as we tested map #50 that aren't yet reflected in the map because yum had already finalized the map before I made the changes. In future maps using the blockers, though, the highlighter ring will be much bigger and more noticeable because we found it was easy to "lose" your blockers if you forgot where you put them. In addition, there will probably be some blockers that move faster in future maps. I've made the highlighter ring spin faster or slower depending on the blocker's movement speed to give visual feedback on their speed.

Finally, I'll try to get the new finished template available on the forums within a few days. I have a few more tweaks I want to make, but in the worst case that I'm not able to get it to the forum (as with the last one, when you guys had to pass it around yourselves because I was absent) I've attached a temporary template that should have everything you need to use the blockers in your own map!
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: D0m0nik on November 01, 2018, 05:24:38 PM
Hi Yum

Yes I am loving all of your maps, but these are my favourites. They are a rare map where I don't use the pause button which is very relaxing.

The new feature here was great and gave an extra dimension. Nice to be at the top of the board but it won't be for long, I am not quick at these maps for some reason.

Enjoy them loads though, thank you.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Deatzar on November 01, 2018, 05:59:32 PM
Отличная карта.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: KingGladiator88 on November 01, 2018, 08:55:27 PM
I really enjoyed it. The blockers make you think in new ways and different approaches to the board.

However I wish there were neutral stargates like a white or black stargate that the blockers spawn in that you could return them to if you didn't need them anymore so they weren't forced to be placed in a spot if you didn't need them at that point.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 01:41:28 AM
Quote from: Deatzar on November 01, 2018, 05:59:32 PM
Отличная карта.

Спасибо, дорогой Царь!

Big thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 01:55:28 AM
Quote from: KingGladiator88 on November 01, 2018, 08:55:27 PM
I really enjoyed it. The blockers make you think in new ways and different approaches to the board.

However I wish there were neutral stargates like a white or black stargate that the blockers spawn in that you could return them to if you didn't need them anymore so they weren't forced to be placed in a spot if you didn't need them at that point.

Thanks for comment!

Concerning special neutral stargate for landing SB (Stargate Blockers) which you don't need to use. We leaved possibility to land any number of SB to one stargate.  :)

P.S. Black color stargate already exist. Black hole. White stargate (and brown stargate) we plan to add in future for better variety of color gates. I think this will help to create more interesting gameplay.
P.P.S. Just now I checked new version of Cornucanis script and find out that "possibility to land any number of SB to one stargate" will be impossible...  :-[
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 02:05:21 AM
Quote from: D0m0nik on November 01, 2018, 05:24:38 PM
Hi Yum

Yes I am loving all of your maps, but these are my favourites. They are a rare map where I don't use the pause button which is very relaxing.

The new feature here was great and gave an extra dimension. Nice to be at the top of the board but it won't be for long, I am not quick at these maps for some reason.

Enjoy them loads though, thank you.

Big thanks, D0m0nik!  :)

In past you created many excellent maps (2728, 2819, 2779 etc.). I will be happy if you will find time and create on my demand one CSM map with Stargate Blockers.   :D


Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Twi on November 02, 2018, 09:06:19 AM
I enjoyed it a lot! The blockers are definitely an interesting element to keep track of.

The blockers weren't affected by movement speed upgrades, were they? Just asking because they move pretty sloooooow by default and that's honestly not a bad thing if I can make them move faster later.

I'll second the note about wanting random 'neutral'/extra 'stargates' to park them on, though. And they are indeed pretty easy to lose at their current size.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 11:33:05 AM
Quote from: Twi on November 02, 2018, 09:06:19 AM
I enjoyed it a lot! The blockers are definitely an interesting element to keep track of.

The blockers weren't affected by movement speed upgrades, were they? Just asking because they move pretty sloooooow by default and that's honestly not a bad thing if I can make them move faster later.

I'll second the note about wanting random 'neutral'/extra 'stargates' to park them on, though. And they are indeed pretty easy to lose at their current size.
Thanks for comment!  :)
1. Yes. Forge can't upgrade SB (Stargate Blocker). This is not easy to do with scripts because SG is additional unit (not build-in-game). But in next game will be at least 2 types of SB: slow and very fast.  :D   And in first map with SB I setted very low speed of SB so that they flying like "small cute spy".
2. About visibility of SB: in next map rotating ring around SB will be more brighter as grass in spring. Also rotation of ring will depends on speed of moving of SB. More faster SB - more faster rotation.
3. About "neutral stargates" it perhaps will be not stargate but something like platform/home of SB. I will discuss about this with Cornucanis.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 02:52:01 PM


Big thanks, D0m0nik!  :)

In past you created many excellent maps (2728, 2819, 2779 etc.). I will be happy if you will find time and create on my demand one CSM map with Stargate Blockers.   :D

[/quote]

Hmmm, intersting. I am a very slow map maker so could take me a while, where is the template?
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 02:56:12 PM
Template file here/above in the end of second post (by Cornucanis).

P.S. You still number one by time score!  :D
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 03:03:07 PM
Where is the standard template (with the handy info panel in the top right)?

Also is it easy to determine how strong emitters are when they flip?
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 03:10:57 PM
Yum - have you sorted maps by rating lately? You have the first 24 places! I think CSM maps are quite popular!
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 03:32:19 PM
Quote from: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 03:03:07 PM
Where is the standard template (with the handy info panel in the top right)?

Also is it easy to determine how strong emitters are when they flip?

Detail of setting of map in editor at the core at the top/left corner.
Flip emitter and other unit setting available when you click on it in editor.
Additional information here:
https://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=28617.0
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 02, 2018, 03:33:49 PM
Quote from: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 03:03:07 PM
Where is the standard template (with the handy info panel in the top right)?

Also is it easy to determine how strong emitters are when they flip?

This little unit in the upper-right corner of the screen will turn into the info panel:
(https://i.imgur.com/NIeTFNb.png)

To avoid a particular bug, the display will only trigger when you set it to trigger or when you finalize the map. If you don't do anything to it, the display should be visible in your finalized map. If you want to trigger it yourself when testing, however, double click on the unit to bring up its properties. In the properties, choose StargateDisplay.crpl then change SafeResize to 0:
(https://i.imgur.com/oSHcQcD.png)

After doing this the display should appear after you unpause the game. BIG warning though: If you're going to resize your map, do it before you ever unpause the game. Resizing should be the very first thing you do when loading up the template. If you resize after unpausing the game, the map will encounter a serious bug where you can't save, load, or exit the map. Due to this bug, make sure you always resize before unpausing your game when starting a new map.

For the flip emitters, you can change their emitter interval and amount prior to and after flipping individually. As with the stargate display, double click the flip emitter to bring up its properties:
(https://i.imgur.com/0Du8w08.png)

Cinterval and Camt control the emitter interval and amount before being flipped. ACinterval and ACamt control the interval and amount after being flipped. Keep in mind that the ACamt will also be multiplied by any green towers you control though. I think yum usually sets the ACamt to be lower than the Camt on all flip emitters that aren't near the start of the map to help counter the influence of excessive green towers.

Finally, this forum post (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=28617.0) has some useful tips about working with the game mode in general, but I wrote it before the stargates were created so it may be a bit outdated. Most of it should still apply though  ;D

Quote from: D0m0nik on November 01, 2018, 05:24:38 PM
Nice to be at the top of the board but it won't be for long, I am not quick at these maps for some reason.

As yum mentioned, you're still at the top for now but I've also been finding it very difficult to keep up with the speeds some people can clock in on these maps. There was a bug with the mode up until yum had made around 10 CSM maps where you could essentially lower the emitter interval to all emitters to 1 frame by pausing the game and using frame step strategically, but I patched that up when it was pointed out to me. There may be some other exploit still possible, but I think some people just get insane with their terrain micromanagement and singularity usage.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: D0m0nik on November 02, 2018, 03:58:34 PM
Thanks for the info. And yeah on times I think singularity is the key to a quick time. I don't use it if possible, I would rather restart and change strategy. The maps are puzzles and great fun without powering through.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 04:09:50 PM
All my 50 CSM maps was designed so that not needed to use singularity weapon. This is difference for instance in comparison with Iron John Logan CSM maps.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 02, 2018, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 04:09:50 PM
All my 50 CSM maps was designed so that not needed to use singularity weapon. This is difference for instance in comparison with Iron John Logan CSM maps.

Yeah, I try to beat all of your maps without using the singularity at all for that reason. I know you designed them where they can be completed without it so I try to work within those confines instead  :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: lmorovan on November 02, 2018, 10:14:53 PM
No wonder the first 24 best maps are creations of yum234. The overall master of genius.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Altren on November 02, 2018, 10:44:11 PM
First of all, I loved the new unit. Not too annoying or complex and it adds to a strategy some tricks.

Quote from: yum-forum on November 02, 2018, 04:09:50 PM
All my 50 CSM maps was designed so that not needed to use singularity weapon. This is difference for instance in comparison with Iron John Logan CSM maps.

You should try to make at least a few maps that are supposed to "need singularity" (aka hardcore maps). So far I won all CSM maps without singularity and some required uncommon and interesting tricks like walls moving and collecting some AC amount before push.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 02, 2018, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: lmorovan on November 02, 2018, 10:14:53 PM
No wonder the first 24 best maps are creations of yum234. The overall master of genius.

Very true! That's why I gave yum a new template with his own signature as well as one for kajacx who contributed several elements to the series as well. I never expected people to actually leave my signature in their finished maps, but if people are gonna do that I figured I should give them an option to leave yum's name too since this series would never be anywhere near as popular without yum's master mapmaking abilities. Anyone who's seen the maps I made with the mode knows they were nowhere near as well-received as yum's expertly crafted maps  ;D

Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Loren Pechtel on November 03, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
Quote from: cornucanis on November 01, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
We've finally reached map #50! Thanks to everyone who has played the game mode and given us some great words of encouragement  ;D

I originally approached yum a few days ago and told him that since he's nearing map #50 I wanted to make a new script for him to celebrate the milestone. The script I proposed was for a new stargate boss fight but yum had a better idea, the stargate blocker! We may someday still see that boss I've envisioned, but for now this toy is much more versatile and can be used in a wider variety of maps  :)

Now let's talk about how it works... You start the map with several blockers. If you click one one, it will select it. Multi-select is not supported due to the nature of how the blockers move. After selecting a blocker, you'll see a red shadow appear under your mouse that will turn green when you mouse over an open stargate. Clicking the open stargate will send the blocker to the gate. When the blocker arrives, he will plug up the stargate and prevent it from interacting with the stargate network. Pretty simple overall, but it opens up the door for interesting new strategies.

There are a few drawbacks to the script though. The biggest one is that you can't interact with the blockers while paused. It's certainly not impossible to do with CRPL, it's something I can patch myself one day or someone else could patch if they were enterprising and wanted to improve the script. The problem is that it would be a little time consuming to make sure there are no major errors with the implementation since you'd essentially have to divide the script into a pause-friendly portion and a non pause-friendly portion. I've been working on game jams lately and have a new one starting today, so I only had a few days to knock out the script and wasn't able to fully make it support paused interaction.

Also note that there were a couple of improvements to the script I made as we tested map #50 that aren't yet reflected in the map because yum had already finalized the map before I made the changes. In future maps using the blockers, though, the highlighter ring will be much bigger and more noticeable because we found it was easy to "lose" your blockers if you forgot where you put them. In addition, there will probably be some blockers that move faster in future maps. I've made the highlighter ring spin faster or slower depending on the blocker's movement speed to give visual feedback on their speed.

Finally, I'll try to get the new finished template available on the forums within a few days. I have a few more tweaks I want to make, but in the worst case that I'm not able to get it to the forum (as with the last one, when you guys had to pass it around yourselves because I was absent) I've attached a temporary template that should have everything you need to use the blockers in your own map!

The blockers make your maps even more interesting.  However, they also make an existing problem more of an issue--I'm sure you have no problem telling the various gates apart but I've got some red-green issues and it's hard to tell some of them apart.  It would be a big help if you made the various gates more distinct.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: lmorovan on November 03, 2018, 09:39:48 AM
What if a new unit is created and named "recharger"? Let me explain: when you turn an emitter into an anti-creep emitter, it starts wearing off in time and if not recharged, it will turn back into creeper emitter. The new unit, produced by the CC, can replenish or recharge the anti-creeper emitter back to it's original strength. Failure to do so will cause anti-emitters to turn back into creeper emitters and must be "conquered" again. This may cause a dynamic situation where every conquered emitter will have to be revisited and replenished constantly, causing a real head-ache to the player. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 03, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on November 03, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
The blockers make your maps even more interesting.  However, they also make an existing problem more of an issue--I'm sure you have no problem telling the various gates apart but I've got some red-green issues and it's hard to tell some of them apart.  It would be a big help if you made the various gates more distinct.

Sorry, I know we haven't done a very good job of making this feature well known, but I actually implemented something to help with that a while back. Try pressing CTRL + R  :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 03, 2018, 10:30:12 AM
WOW! I forgot...  :-[
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Loren Pechtel on November 04, 2018, 04:38:44 AM
Quote from: cornucanis on November 03, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on November 03, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
The blockers make your maps even more interesting.  However, they also make an existing problem more of an issue--I'm sure you have no problem telling the various gates apart but I've got some red-green issues and it's hard to tell some of them apart.  It would be a big help if you made the various gates more distinct.

Sorry, I know we haven't done a very good job of making this feature well known, but I actually implemented something to help with that a while back. Try pressing CTRL + R  :)

Perfect.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on November 04, 2018, 04:42:16 AM
In SB-2 I mentioned that this feature exist.  :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: sept1973 on November 08, 2018, 06:43:25 PM
Quote from: cornucanis on November 03, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on November 03, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
The blockers make your maps even more interesting.  However, they also make an existing problem more of an issue--I'm sure you have no problem telling the various gates apart but I've got some red-green issues and it's hard to tell some of them apart.  It would be a big help if you made the various gates more distinct.

Sorry, I know we haven't done a very good job of making this feature well known, but I actually implemented something to help with that a while back. Try pressing CTRL + R  :)

Thanks for this feature!  I have also had problems identifying which gates were parts of a group before, and this makes it so much easier.

I may have seen a small bug when using this feature with the new blockers, though.  Sometimes when moving a blocker off of a gate, the identifying symbol will not re-appear, and the center of the gate will turn white.  I'm not sure if this has something to do with saving and re-loading the game, but when I replay this map I'll try to pay more attention to see if it happens again.
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: cornucanis on November 08, 2018, 11:43:00 PM
Quote from: sept1973 on November 08, 2018, 06:43:25 PM
Quote from: cornucanis on November 03, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on November 03, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
The blockers make your maps even more interesting.  However, they also make an existing problem more of an issue--I'm sure you have no problem telling the various gates apart but I've got some red-green issues and it's hard to tell some of them apart.  It would be a big help if you made the various gates more distinct.

Sorry, I know we haven't done a very good job of making this feature well known, but I actually implemented something to help with that a while back. Try pressing CTRL + R  :)

Thanks for this feature!  I have also had problems identifying which gates were parts of a group before, and this makes it so much easier.

I may have seen a small bug when using this feature with the new blockers, though.  Sometimes when moving a blocker off of a gate, the identifying symbol will not re-appear, and the center of the gate will turn white.  I'm not sure if this has something to do with saving and re-loading the game, but when I replay this map I'll try to pay more attention to see if it happens again.

Ah now that you mention it, I think I know exactly why that's happening. I calculate the image slot to pull the shape image from using the gate's color index, which always worked fine before. The problem is that the way the blocker works is by setting the gate's color index to -1 so it will be ignored by the other gates. That will cause the shape image slot to be set to an image that was never meant to be used as a shape icon, and I guess that particular shape was just a circle. The issue should only occur if you reload the game while a portal has a blocker in it, since the awake function is where the image slot is calculated.

In any case, it's a pretty simple fix now that I know it's an issue. Unfortunately I won't have time to work on the scripts for another few weeks, so sorry for any inconveniences in the meantime!
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: Johnny Haywire on December 30, 2018, 05:03:53 PM
Yanno, you guys rock these maps. Yum, cornucanis, et al... you have come up with an excellent gameplay that is just plain enjoyable.

And I would love if Dom would make a map using this script. He's not as prolific as others but the guys makes seriously great maps too. I don't think I'd do so great at it. It'd just be the same kinda map with a million spores, lol.

But hey, whatever it takes. If we need to start a gofundme page, let me know. Probably a limited number of people it'd reach but I bet we could come up with at least enough to buy a candy bar. And maybe some potato chips too.  ;)

And I'd absolutely hate to ruin the ratings on these great maps, but I'd love it if there were one that was pretty tough like that one puzzle map that cornucanis made a while back. Maybe not a puzzle map per se, but more of a threat or something. Yanno, I dunno what I'm saying.  :o You guys just keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome. I'm happy & thankful for your maps!

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on October 01, 2019, 03:20:25 AM
Video in YouTube from Strigvir:  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZbibnxLyUs 
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on April 21, 2020, 02:25:08 AM
Fresh video from PRG:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn8WzdRoA9E&t=1s

The same with 2X speed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7d4Fl1nBqI
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on January 31, 2021, 07:26:19 AM
Fresh video from Master FATMAN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ONbsvY4pU
Title: Re: Custom Map #6736: JUBILEE CSM-50. By: yum234
Post by: yum-forum on January 12, 2022, 03:25:18 AM
Fresh video from Dr Gorgee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqNc8Q2_QK4