Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World 3 => Gameplay Discussion => Topic started by: Clean0nion on October 28, 2013, 08:03:51 am

Title: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Clean0nion on October 28, 2013, 08:03:51 am
What I'd like to see - somewhere - is a map in which it is challenging from beginning to end.

Most maps that I've seen are particularly hard at the beginning then once you have a good setup, you're fine.
I'm looking for a map that is hard at the beginning - not ÜBERHARD but nicely challenging, then maintains that difficulty all the way through.

I do know that Farbor roughly fulfills this demand, but that's only one map, which only lasts so long. 38 minutes, to be precise. I think.

So, are there any other maps out there that are challenging enough? Feel free to post your own creations here, too.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: 4xC on October 28, 2013, 08:47:22 am
Check out the credits map. It blinds most of the map until you win.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: J on October 28, 2013, 08:50:46 am
How good are you currently at the game? Does Farbor count as impossible, hard or easy? Have you beaten all story mission already? Then you can check some of the alpha maps. Most of mine are fairly challenging and use a totally different kind of strategy, requiring you to think about it even if you have top-3 scores on all story missions.
Just play maps and tell us if you find one that suits you :)
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: xing on October 28, 2013, 09:04:13 am
I think the Idea behind the post is the difficulty of a map can be measured by the first few moments of game play .. we haven't seen many maps that you haven't 'won' if you survive the initial base building
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: teknotiss on October 28, 2013, 10:24:51 am
well i dunno if it's fit for this discussion (and i dislike blowing my own trumpet), but my "get the gear" map at least punishes mistakes in power supply, have a look in the alpha sector, and if nothing fits what your after, edit one and show us all! :D
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Fisherck on October 28, 2013, 10:35:09 am
Each map is a lot like a story; it has rising action, a climax, and then resolution/falling action. You'll be hard pressed to find a map that doesn't follow this, and you don't necessarily want to :) That being said, I do agree that the "resolution/falling action" part of a map is often too long for the actual length of the map. In a story, the resolution usually only takes a small fraction of what the rising action took.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Clean0nion on October 28, 2013, 11:00:53 am
Check out the credits map. It blinds most of the map until you win.

I don't like the credits map because that's not the type of gameplay I'm referring to.

I'm currently in the process of making a map that satisfies me. The strategy I'm using is as follows:
(click to show/hide)
I think this will be suitable. Not many people have used the collector embargo yet.
I'd like to CRPL but I can't speak Polish backwards.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: steelwing on October 28, 2013, 11:34:48 am
(click to show/hide)
A great starting point might be the DMD map Space Islands-2.  That one's pretty wild.
(click to show/hide)
I'm finding it a major challenge so far.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: pawel345 on October 28, 2013, 05:02:13 pm
Also try:
Island Conqueror by AssassinDude53
DMD map

It's not hard but there is very little building space and the small islands make it hard to attack.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Cavemaniac on October 28, 2013, 05:22:34 pm

Balancing a map is always a juggle - once you've built up a decent infrastructure, it's true that many maps just require a slog-fest mop-up to finish them...
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: NFITC1 on October 28, 2013, 05:41:15 pm
Balancing a map is always a juggle - once you've built up a decent infrastructure, it's true that many maps just require a slog-fest mop-up to finish them...
Ultimately this is what most maps reduce to. Get your energy/AC economy high enough to push back then it's just a patience game until you can push far enough to nullify the enemy units. I think Megaworld does a good job of getting progressively harder each time you destroy one. More maps should be designed that way; Getting harder each push forward. I liked that about the room-like maps in CW2.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: teknotiss on October 28, 2013, 05:56:52 pm
how about a script that makes emitters x% stronger when you kill one, you could have more scripts for spore towers and AEZ's too. that could just be whacked on an invisible/unkillable tower or you could hide the core emitter and the effect could end if the mapper wished.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Kingo on October 28, 2013, 07:45:25 pm
CPRL scripts allow for this... a map-maker can easily set up traps that are timed, or after a certain condition is fulfilled (if, say, a script detects a certain number of reactors built it can be inferred that the person is building up their base and in a relatively comfortable state.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: Grauniad on October 28, 2013, 08:11:27 pm
Here is the thing. In any game where two sides compete, if there is a mutual build-up of capabilities, then it is essentially a stalemate. By the very nature of things, a victory requires that one side grows stronger faster than the other. The strong (winning) side will then eventually be able to rapidly grow stronger, creating a rout of the weaker side.

Some games allow for a winning condition if one player has 66% of the resources. IN CW3, one can make it such that destroying an inhibitor creates a win (after a hard battle).

The challenge of a hard game is to ramp up the enemy capabilities in such a way that there is a constantly grwoing threat, but one that can eventually be surpassed. It is surprisingly hard to do this right.

Good luck.
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: TLMike on October 28, 2013, 09:28:28 pm
well i dunno if it's fit for this discussion (and i dislike blowing my own trumpet), but my "get the gear" map at least punishes mistakes in power supply, have a look in the alpha sector, and if nothing fits what your after, edit one and show us all! :D


That map is easy. That is if you get your gear in the correct order....
Title: Re: I need a map. A very special map.
Post by: xing on October 29, 2013, 09:25:08 am
some game-play mechanics we are missing from CW2 is 'opening up' a new area which effects the whole map ( rather than the current self contained islands ) - and the 'escape pod's' that were already on the map that you lost the map if destroyed - I know you can simulate the escape pods in code - but might be nice to have them hard-coded and a include-able  in DMD