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Creeper World 2 => Custom Map Discussion => Custom Map Comments => Topic started by: AutoPost on August 18, 2012, 01:01:03 pm

Title: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: AutoPost on August 18, 2012, 01:01:03 pm
This topic is for discussion of map #1364: Black temple 2 (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=1364)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/thumb.php?id=1364) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=1364)

Author: cha (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?author=cha)

Desc:
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: peter on August 18, 2012, 10:17:42 pm
For me this was a great map.  Loved that I did not need to just sit back and wait, was a constant battle to work out the right option for each part of the map.

Must have taken a while to plan and edit, which I admire.

Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: chwooly on August 18, 2012, 10:20:50 pm
So before I down vote on this, How do you get past the launcher room?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: peter on August 18, 2012, 11:02:30 pm
I pretty much used AC for most of the map, with a few blasters where needed, by a few, I do mean 20 or so when it gets to the later stages.  (Remembering that there is pretty much an unlimited supply of AC soon after the start.)

What you choose to upgrade, and when, can make a difference with this map.  Took a few tries to decide which was best to start with.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: teknotiss on August 18, 2012, 11:09:56 pm
i had about 80 makers all along the AC path, building them everywhere i couldn't put reactors, just wait til the AC has piled up to a couple of times the creeper density in the room, then launchers are easy to get. taking the time to get LOADS of AC is prob the key to a fast time, but i don't know if i'll replay this one, it's going to be quite long if i do.

(edited for the sake of clarity cos i was tired when i typed it and made a few typo's)
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Strubbel on August 19, 2012, 01:41:08 am
So before I down vote on this, How do you get past the launcher room?

I got stuck at the same place ;)

You have to build a beacon to reach the AC vacuumers in the lower middle, after that just build AC makers en masse ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: chwooly on August 19, 2012, 01:28:15 pm
I have to admit, Over all it wasn't too bad a map. I was 1 emitter away from winning when a drone got thru and destroyed my ship and I had to start over but it wasn't that horrible. Thanks for the effort on making this. I think adding a few conversion bombs might have made it a little bit more fun.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Kilroyinc on August 19, 2012, 03:03:44 pm
This is a well thought out map with complex fields throughout.  It is a bit of a slog; however, it does keep you busy.  When you get to the bottom rooms, you have to work fast otherwise the AC builds up to the point it converts to bad creeper before you can clear the room or bring weapons to bear for the next room.  I may play it again to see if I can achieve a better score/time.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: TypoNinja on August 19, 2012, 04:54:20 pm
Couple of problem rooms where the fields interacted to make bits of creeper one pixel in size but 100's of millions deep. Also I've completed the map but it's not giving me the win, so apparently I've missed one though I can't spot it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: clbuttic on August 20, 2012, 06:21:11 am
That's a great battle.

@TypoNinja: Did you forget about the digger gateway?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: fitz on August 20, 2012, 06:47:15 am
A great map, played it 3 times with a view to improving my score, which I did slightly. I suffered with overindulgence with AC production and several times it flips into creeper. Is there a smart way to manage this or is it just a matter of good judgement?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: teknotiss on August 20, 2012, 12:17:31 pm
good judgement on this map really, since the fields focus it so much there's not much to do apart from cope with it occasionally. i mitigated it a bit by shielding "upstream" a few secs before a switch so as it switches and hits the shield a large amount of ac builds up to help quickly neutralise the creeper.
just keep moving forwards otherwise.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: TypoNinja on August 20, 2012, 03:45:45 pm
That's a great battle.

@TypoNinja: Did you forget about the digger gateway?

Yep, that was it, thanks.

Does the AC actually switch to creeper? I only noticed that happened in rooms with the fields teleporting in creeper from other rooms, I thought it was just sending me new creeper on a timer.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: JmfR on August 20, 2012, 04:34:23 pm
The launcher tech covers an emitter
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: teknotiss on August 20, 2012, 05:03:47 pm
That's a great battle.

@TypoNinja: Did you forget about the digger gateway?

Yep, that was it, thanks.

Does the AC actually switch to creeper? I only noticed that happened in rooms with the fields teleporting in creeper from other rooms, I thought it was just sending me new creeper on a timer.

AC and C are switched to the other state when density reaches 2147M.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: TypoNinja on August 20, 2012, 06:48:42 pm
Fascinating, I've never seen creeper anywhere near that deep in the wild though, by like a digit. The closest I've ever seen is in rooms (Like this map uses) that contain just a crazy strong AC emitter and a Maker or two on vacuum mode with no way in or out, they seem to stabilize at 2000M even with crazy crazy strong emitters.

Now that I've beaten this map though, time for my favorite past time. Edit the Drones out and see if the map is beatable with just AC/Makers :D
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: teknotiss on August 20, 2012, 07:30:16 pm
one of my maps use Creeper to AC as a help for slower players (creeper collider i think?), others have used it extensively.
it's annoying when you don't realise a square is approaching critical mass and it wipes out all of your reactors :o, but a fun game mechanism nonetheless  8)
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Bongo on August 20, 2012, 07:54:16 pm
I liked it but it was a little sloggy. Took me 70+ minutes.

Only thing I didn't like was it seemed a little too cramped and confined. Also after I had about 100 Makers I had the Anti-Creeper pile up and switch about 4 times while waiting for those ridiculous 25 grounds to dig out.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Shimizu on August 21, 2012, 07:01:26 pm
I might just be being impossibly thick, but after using the rift to reach the right hand side phantom coil, it seems I cannot go anywhere else.  I don't see any other rifts anywhere on the map, and I can't build anything at all.  I even tried destroying the 1 beacon to see if there was a 1 beacon limit or something, but alas no.  So, can't reach the ac things in the middle.  Can't do anything or build anything.  I like the idea of a map not being a complete 'mass units and zerg' fest but this seems a bit silly.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: teknotiss on August 21, 2012, 07:07:30 pm
hey shim, dig out the gateway in the top right and it digs out the solid terrain, nothing else either so no worries about a drone rush. that should get you going  8)
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Shimizu on August 21, 2012, 07:22:40 pm
I did that the first time but it just sat there, defiantly not digging.  I restarted and this time it worked.  *shrugs*
This going to take a while....
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: clbuttic on August 22, 2012, 03:59:08 pm

AC and C are switched to the other state when density reaches 2147M.

An integer overflow? Ooops. I noticed this in the past, but thought I was just going mad. I'd guess the secret is to not go ape on the emitters. Thanks!

Also, I've noticed a global limit on drones, something around 255. Can anyone confirm?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: koker93 on August 23, 2012, 12:31:44 am
Shimizu - you have to turn off your first maker as soon as it clears the very first creeper.  the gateway cant dig out to the reactor through AC. 

Overall a great map - I am a fan of long slogs, especially maps that are AC heavy.  My only complaint - the 1450m creeper cell 2-3 rooms before the end outside of the creeper flow.  It could have at least been in the center subcell so it wouldnt take forever to blast.  That one cell added 10 minutes to my time, I missed it until the end...
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Bongo on August 23, 2012, 04:14:50 am

AC and C are switched to the other state when density reaches 2147M.

An integer overflow? Ooops. I noticed this in the past, but thought I was just going mad. I'd guess the secret is to not go ape on the emitters. Thanks!

It's not a bug it's a feature! :P

Actually it's not the Emitters that do it it's the fields. No Emitter can produce Creeper if the local density is above 2 billion (at least not in the map editor). You need class 4 Fields pushing Creeper into a small area. Only then can it 'flip' into the opposite type.

Does this happen on 64 bit systems? I guess not since someone would have compained by now.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: TypoNinja on August 23, 2012, 04:26:47 am
It is that the game can't count that high and rolls over? I noticed from the editor that AC is literally negative density creeper, so if its the same entity that would explain the roll over. Would it still do the flip if AC were a distinct entity rather than negative density creeper? Or am I just mis-understanding what's happening?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Grauniad on August 23, 2012, 09:15:32 am
The creeper/anti-creeper rollover is a design feature. It is irrelevant to 32-bit or 64-bit systems since the number representation remain the same on both systems.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: toastkid on August 24, 2012, 06:14:40 pm
So before I down vote on this, How do you get past the launcher room?

I got stuck at the same place ;)

You have to build a beacon to reach the AC vacuumers in the lower middle, after that just build AC makers en masse ;)

I don't understand what you're saying here - i'm stuck trying to get the launcher and can't make enough AC to do anything: i've got two vacuuming below the emitters and others making AC in the path leading to the room with the launchers, but it's just a stalemate.  I must be missing something - any idea what?  Grateful for any advice!
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: toastkid on August 24, 2012, 06:16:28 pm
Never mind, i'm a dumbass, i just saw the vacuumers you mentioned.  doh :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Meander on August 28, 2012, 10:57:25 am
Excellent map, thanks for creating and sharing, I really enjoyed playing it!
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Tromain on November 20, 2012, 06:58:34 pm
Oof 2 hours for my attempt, love the map, makes a nice change having to think it through instead of just zerg with blasters and launchers.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Ringo on November 21, 2012, 11:40:27 pm
I still am having problems with the launcher room i got the emitter but even then the creeper there seems to keep building i even tryed a nullifer by the crystal but theres noting there. Turned off all the makers and moved them still climbing to about 145k.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Tromain on November 23, 2012, 09:51:02 am
I still am having problems with the launcher room i got the emitter but even then the creeper there seems to keep building i even tryed a nullifer by the crystal but theres noting there. Turned off all the makers and moved them still climbing to about 145k.

There is an emitter hiding under the launcher schematic, but it also gets teleported in from the emitter in the room below, so build a maker on just about every available slot leading to the launcher room set to 4x production, with a group of maxed out blasters firing into the room and it'll bring the creeper down to a lower level where your packets can slip in and nullify the emitter under the schematic, build some launchers to help keep it down and move into the room below as fast as you can(get a MR in the lower room asap) and nullify the emitter there. It's slow and bound to be a faster way to do it, but that's how I did it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Ringo on November 23, 2012, 04:15:01 pm
Ahh i see i didn't know that creeper could be teleported i through it was my AC that was being turned to creeper. 

But i did try that with 2-3 launchers and every other slot blasters/makers and most of the other 2 rooms i cleared full of blasters but i run out of power and lost. Guess i will try again but change no more then 5 blasters to creeper only to keep back the teleporting creeper.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: timedragon on November 23, 2012, 08:19:02 pm
What an ordeal!  It took me a few times to neutralize the launcher room, which is where you either figure out how this it's going to be for the rest of the map, or go online and read that it will be about allowing AC buildup before digging a wall with more creeper on the other side than you are prepared to handle.  It's cool how it ends up being a giant river of AC.  So yeah - nice, huge map.
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Gyorkosz on December 04, 2012, 11:46:16 am
I still am having problems with the launcher room i got the emitter but even then the creeper there seems to keep building i even tryed a nullifer by the crystal but theres noting there. Turned off all the makers and moved them still climbing to about 145k.

There is an emitter hiding under the launcher schematic, but it also gets teleported in from the emitter in the room below, so build a maker on just about every available slot leading to the launcher room set to 4x production, with a group of maxed out blasters firing into the room and it'll bring the creeper down to a lower level where your packets can slip in and nullify the emitter under the schematic, build some launchers to help keep it down and move into the room below as fast as you can(get a MR in the lower room asap) and nullify the emitter there. It's slow and bound to be a faster way to do it, but that's how I did it.

I try to use your method, but I can't make it, and it drives me crazy. Can you take a youtube video how to pass the launcher room?
Title: Re: Custom Map #1364: Black temple 2
Post by: Fantomas on August 06, 2019, 12:33:34 pm
I've tried them all and many times but I can't get past the room where you activate the launcher. the creeper is unbeatable. A little help to try the rest of the scheme?
 :(