This topic is for discussion of map #139: Experiment 14
(http://knucklecracker.com/particlefleet/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=139)
Author: Sorrontis
Size: 384x200
Desc:
Experiment 14 was sent to Sector 14a for in combat testing. The sector was scanned, showing only the lightest of particle resistance. Soon after the test started, contact with the testing Platform & 14 was lost. HQ and a quick response fleet was sent to investigate. Good luck.
help please, how do you beat those cannons? i cant beat them they defeated me even in one honk
I just want to see the video of the 8min win.
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 09:52:27 AM
I just want to see the video of the 8min win.
I'll wait to see what times more experienced players reach before commenting on a 8.5min time.
Quote from: PMouser on October 09, 2016, 05:45:06 AM
help please, how do you beat those cannons? i cant beat them they defeated me even in one honk
Please be more specific? There's a whole bunch of cannons in this map :D
Also, I would love to hear from people that rated the map below 6.
Why were you unhappy with it?
Overall once I got past the rage quit stage due to losing my HQ 3 times for no discernible reason it was not a bad map, I do find that I truly dislike plasma especially when it is dropped by particles.
Spoiler
With the massive particle explosion at 9 mins the whole map is covered with plasma. Might as well just start that way.
The other problem is the lack of tankers on your maps. That means I have to spend more time than I would like shuttleing lathes around and with lots of particles that means I am really building lathes constantly
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 11:41:53 AM
Overall once I got past the rage quit stage due to losing my HQ 3 times for no discernible reason it was not a bad map, I do find that I truly dislike plasma especially when it is dropped by particles. Spoiler
With the massive particle explosion at 9 mins the whole map is covered with plasma. Might as well just start that way.
Experiment 14 has a port. If you can control your energy properly, you can use that. Also, there's a free amp gem at the beginning (it's allocated as Mine Cannon) reallocate to energy. ;)
But thanks for the critique!
Because of the lack of energy, I didn't use EXP 14 or the Star base until the end game, I actually destroyed them when I probably should have just clicked don't build but even with don't build on I have seen ships get supplied so figured it was the easier way to do it.
I did find the amp gem and thought that was nice touch having it hidden like that.
It's not a bad map, but as someone who prefer speedy push/expand, the map sorta punishes that playstyle.
Spoiler
Especially when the "third bomb" went off while my fleet is trying to lock down the double flip emitters... unexpected gameover is not pleasant lol
Even with the energy tech, the big ships are just energy blackhole. I literally toggle off all the weapons except fighters on Exp 14, and just used it as a shielded meatshield
Quote from: Aletx on October 09, 2016, 01:21:33 PM
It's not a bad map, but as someone who prefer speedy push/expand, the map sorta punishes that playstyle.
Spoiler
Especially when the "third bomb" went off while my fleet is trying to lock down the double flip emitters... unexpected gameover is not pleasant lol
Even with the energy tech, the big ships are just energy blackhole. I literally toggle off all the weapons except fighters on Exp 14, and just used it as a shielded meatshield
Yes, that is a valid point. For early out expanders, this map is quite mean. Btw, it is possible to stop the third explosion, first & second not so much.
The 8.5 min time is defo possible but very impressive. I wasted loads of time at 13 mins as I did not notice the inhibitor unit (I can't remember what it is called in PF!) and was trying to take islands I could have ignored.
The start is very critical and does suit a speed player but you have to get it right, I took 6 or 7 attempts before I was happy.
Spoiler
The key is to go straight for the two flip emitters to the east, you must secure these and hold on to your platform and two lathes before the enemy ship comes round. Ignore the week emitters until you are set and the Unit 14 is ready. Don't build anythign else for a while.
The use of gems was the difference in each of my initial attempts, they are so important on this map, more than on any other I have played. The first one I removed from mine cannon and put on defence structures, the energy mines you have then have lathes and do a lot of early work for you in activating energy deposits and taking care of a few land based emitters.
Really great map again and worthy of a much higher score than it will get.
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well to the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
Quote from: Slurr on October 09, 2016, 06:37:46 PM
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well the the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
Ahh now I know what killed my HQ. Never thought of that, But the last time I played I did hide it behind a couple of of other ships. Of course this lowered my available fleet and probably made the map harder then it should have been
Thank you all for your input. Seriously, I appreciate it.
Quote from: Slurr on October 09, 2016, 06:37:46 PM
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well the the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
I am a big fan of "possible loss" maps. The only way that is possible is with either HQ loss or a special PRPL system. Now, the defense cannons were powerful, meaning you had to sacrifice many ships to move forwards.
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 06:52:30 PM
Spoiler
Quote from: Slurr on October 09, 2016, 06:37:46 PM
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well the the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
Ahh now I know what killed my HQ. Never thought of that, But the last time I played I did hide it behind a couple of of other ships. Of course this lowered my available fleet and probably made the map harder then it should have been
Yes, the point was that the HQ needed to be protected at the beginning, but it is possible to leave it in safety once you have completely secured the lower left corner. :D
Quote from: Sorrontis on October 09, 2016, 07:13:20 PM
Thank you all for your input. Seriously, I appreciate it.
Quote from: Slurr on October 09, 2016, 06:37:46 PM
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well the the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
I am a big fan of "possible loss" maps. The only way that is possible is with either HQ loss or a special PRPL system. Now, the defense cannons were powerful, meaning you had to sacrifice many ships to move forwards.
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 06:52:30 PM
Spoiler
Quote from: Slurr on October 09, 2016, 06:37:46 PM
I did find the default ships to be somewhat lacking and not suited well the the fast particles bouncing everywhere. The auto cannons have too much shot power making tanking their shots almost impossible. Random high power shots 2-shot the HQ. No idea why it's necessary for a dead HQ to be an instant fail here.
Ahh now I know what killed my HQ. Never thought of that, But the last time I played I did hide it behind a couple of of other ships. Of course this lowered my available fleet and probably made the map harder then it should have been
Yes, the point was that the HQ needed to be protected at the beginning, but it is possible to leave it in safety once you have completely secured the lower left corner. :D
It would have been nice if there was some way to know that was the culprit. I kept looking for particles and there were none when I died haha
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 07:28:27 PM
It would have been nice if there was some way to know that was the culprit. I kept looking for particles and there were none when I died haha
This is a UI issue I've been having with this game in general. It's impossible to find out what the power of each thing is without trial and error. Wish the dev could add in the ability to click something and see its statistics.
Quote from: Slurr on October 10, 2016, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: chwooly on October 09, 2016, 07:28:27 PM
It would have been nice if there was some way to know that was the culprit. I kept looking for particles and there were none when I died haha
This is a UI issue I've been having with this game in general. It's impossible to find out what the power of each thing is without trial and error. Wish the dev could add in the ability to click something and see its statistics.
It's coming :)
Another great map by Sorrontis! This was kind of a nightmare for me because I usually play without any saving and my HQ died randomly (though ofc not really at random, I suspect stray cannonshots) a few times forcing me to start all over. I never bothered getting the new ship as it seemed easier to just go straight for the enemy progenitor. I'm very happy that people like you, planetfall and others are making more challenging maps. Keep 'em coming!
Thanks for the kind words!
I liked the part where the map is covered in plasma and there is no way to establish a ship to remove it in a timely manner so you are forced to venture with lathes and HQ (losing the latter causes insta lose).
j/k I fracking hate this mission. Looks like the recipe for a "hard" map is already figured out: plasma everywhere, overpriced ships (with energy starvation ofc), fast particles so armor on those overpriced ships is irrelevant and HQ insta-lose.
Quote from: strigvir on October 11, 2016, 06:12:30 PM
I liked the part where the map is covered in plasma and there is no way to establish a ship to remove it in a timely manner so you are forced to venture with lathes and HQ (losing the latter causes insta lose).
j/k I soap applied hate this mission. Looks like the recipe for a "hard" map is already figured out: plasma everywhere, overpriced ships (with energy starvation ofc), fast particles so armor on those overpriced ships is irrelevant and HQ insta-lose.
Sarcasm won't get you anywhere. In any case I'll try to rectify your concerns. The plasma part is quite, at best, annoying. This is part of the learning curve of map making. You'll notice that in my maps I rarely use sub-titan & titan class ships (those overprices ships you mentioned). I give a challenge by reducing the amounts of ships available. Additionally, the cost to build the ships is standardized (and E-starvation I try to balance).
Insta-lose is something that's standard in my maps. Why, because it gives the players something to worry about. It's just no fun if you know you'll always win.
Extremely dissatisfied with the uber-cannon.
Regular cannons not so bad so long as they aren't over used, but the suped up cannons that kill 3 or 4 ships a power cycle, nope those can die in a fire.
Maybe the game has changed a bit since this map was done, but I found it to be unusually easy for a sorrontis map. I don't go for fastest scores, and don't play a map twice, but somehow I landed unusually high up in the times.
It seemed best to me to start by:
Spoiler
landing my HQ right by the mine on the island to the NE (upper-right) of the starting location. While I was doing that, I moved the big ship down to safety then quickly moved to repair it after taking the mine. (You can use 4 omnis to do that)
After that point, stuff was pretty easy and I don't think I paused or saved b/c stuff seemed pretty straightforward. Lotsa omnis usually make for an easy map.
Spoiler
Omins make great distractions for guns. You can fly them with the mouse by keeping their destination moving, in case anyone didn't realize that.
I parked my HQ in the lower-left and nothing ever touched it. So I dunno what all the fuss is about.
Loved the map! The big ship was super-cool, and besides lathes it's the only ship you need.