Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World 2 => Custom Map Discussion => Custom Map Comments => Topic started by: AutoPost on September 13, 2011, 02:01:01 PM

Title: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: AutoPost on September 13, 2011, 02:01:01 PM
This topic is for discussion of map #195: Liberation Pinball (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=195)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/thumb.php?id=195) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=195)

Author: UpperKEES (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?author=UpperKEES)

Desc:
Difficulty: Expert Only. This map allows for a multitude of possible strategies. It offers lots of free space, so you can move anywhere, but so can the Creeper! Where do you start? What artifacts and techs do you collect first? Will you be ready in time to stay safe? Feel free to post your strategy in the map comments at the KnuckleCracker forums, because I'm not sure about the best approach myself! Many thanks to MadMag for creating the awesome graphics!
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 02:14:14 PM

Title:
Liberation Pinball
Difficulty:
Expert Only
Height:
80 rows
Enemies:
Creeper, drones, phantoms, dig packets
Remarks:
This map allows for a multitude of possible strategies. It offers lots of free space, so you can move anywhere, but so can the Creeper!

Where do you start? What artifacts and techs do you collect first? Will you be ready in time to stay safe?

Feel free to post your strategy in the map comments at the KnuckleCracker forums, because I'm not sure about the best approach myself!

Many thanks to MadMag for creating the awesome graphics!

Description:
Whahaha! You have landed your liberation ship at the wrong spot, mortal human!

Welcome to my evil pinball machine with balls made out of solid Creeper. Prepare to die soon....

I enjoy to see you struggle a little longer, so I'll explain a bit how this machine works:

1. A new ball will be launched automatically when you lose one.
2. Each time a ball hits a red sensor, an evil drone will be released. Every 5 minutes their health (max 10) and speed (max 5) will increase.
3. Each time a ball hits an orange sensor, an evil dig packet will be released.
4. After 3 minutes 3 phantoms will be released from the top left. After that 3 phantoms will be released every 2 minutes, alternating between the top right and top left.
5. Not all techs are available from the start, so you'll have to obtain them. Please note that one of the techs has a build limit.
6. Before you collect any crystals, nanochips, techs and other artifacts, have a look at their cost and reward, because these may differ from what you're used to.
7. Two fields will pull the Creeper towards the capsules, so make sure you keep them safe.
8. After 20 minutes the orange sensors will both release a heavy drone (100 health, double speed) when touched by the free ball.

Tip 1: Move your Liberation Ship close to the action. This will not only save you time, but also prevent the loss of packets.
Tip 2: Remember to save your game frequently.... You'll need it!

Did you ever play a pinball machine without losing in the end?

Whahaha! Time to die now, monkey breed!

Download page:
Liberation Pinball (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?embedded=false&gameVer=&mapid=195)

Screen shot:
(click to enlarge)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8091.0;attach=5887;image) (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8091.0;attach=5887;image)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Kithros on September 13, 2011, 02:19:01 PM
I pretty much rushed to get the ore rig, then worked on nullifiers+shields. I haven't finished it yet but I've nullified both the digging gateways before they let any emitters free, so it's mostly a matter of time for me now. I used shields to block most of the pinball (it really annoyed me that the pinball fields move too fast so the shields can't block the entire pinball, but oh well) and then I let the pinball teleport the creeper from the bottom over to the far right which made it a lot easier/faster to advance on the bottom (at the expense of needing to fight the creeper on the far right of course).

EDIT: My game bugged out now and I can only use the normal build directions now - it shouldn't be hard to beat still but my time is screwed now :/
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Link327 on September 13, 2011, 03:04:19 PM
omg.
I dont get anything in this map....i got the ore rig, well, but then when i try to get the maker, i see there is alrdy an emitter harrasing the field!
Totally agree on "expert only", well, im not an expert :(
Dont take it wrong, i LOVE this map.
Well, just too heavy for me xD
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Colin on September 13, 2011, 03:06:37 PM
I'm going to have to try a few more times . . . The
Creeper keeps coming out before I can mine the
nullifier.

Great map UpperKEES!  :D
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Miss Melissa on September 13, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
yah.. im clearly not an expert either, but ill keep trying from time to time.. someday itll happen! i dont necessarily want any tips yet, i still have a few ideas to try out. great looking map, excellent use of fields. thanks :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: FR-seratna on September 13, 2011, 03:45:42 PM
Ouaa! This map is really beautiful, I guess the time spent on it, and really respect!
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 04:15:53 PM
we finally get to see the insane UpperKEES map! Hurray! Too bad my computer's crashed. Fate's a (insert word here)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Kithros on September 13, 2011, 02:19:01 PM
I pretty much rushed to get the ore rig, then worked on nullifiers+shields. I haven't finished it yet but I've nullified both the digging gateways before they let any emitters free, so it's mostly a matter of time for me now. I used shields to block most of the pinball (it really annoyed me that the pinball fields move too fast so the shields can't block the entire pinball, but oh well) and then I let the pinball teleport the creeper from the bottom over to the far right which made it a lot easier/faster to advance on the bottom (at the expense of needing to fight the creeper on the far right of course).

Yep, experts will find their way to rush things. I do this myself as well.... ;) First this wasn't possible, but I figured the map would then be too hard for the average player. I moved the shield tech about 20 rows up, so shields can be used for the chambers too (which wasn't my original intend).

Of course I limited the amount of shields so you can't block the entire pinball. :P This is something you'll experience even more in the last part of the map (albeit less when the terrain above the bottom right emitter hasn't been dug out). "The venom is in the tail" as we say here, so you'll have to develop a special technique for the final part. I never played frame by frame (using the N-key) by the way, so I'm sure there's still lots of time to gain. I guess this map can be finished in about 15 minutes.

Quote from: Kithros on September 13, 2011, 02:19:01 PM
EDIT: My game bugged out now and I can only use the normal build directions now - it shouldn't be hard to beat still but my time is screwed now :/

Yep, this happened to me as well one time. Virgil knows about it and already has a fix in the works (a minor issue regarding loading a saved game).
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: Link327 on September 13, 2011, 03:04:19 PM
omg.
I dont get anything in this map....i got the ore rig, well, but then when i try to get the maker, i see there is alrdy an emitter harrasing the field!
Totally agree on "expert only", well, im not an expert :(
Dont take it wrong, i LOVE this map.
Well, just too heavy for me xD

Just start with something else.... many techs to obtain. ;)

Even if you're no expert you can finish this map; it will just take you some more game saves/loads. :) (I used the 'Expert Only' rating to compare the difficulty to CW1 maps that players are probably familiar with.)

Quote from: Colin on September 13, 2011, 03:06:37 PM
I'm going to have to try a few more times . . . The
Creeper keeps coming out before I can mine the
nullifier.

Great map UpperKEES!  :D

Thanks Colin! :)

Of course you can also temporarily hold the Creeper back.... Just don't do that for too long, because it will cost you a lot of energy.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:38:50 PM
Quote from: Miss Melissa on September 13, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
yah.. im clearly not an expert either, but ill keep trying from time to time.. someday itll happen! i dont necessarily want any tips yet, i still have a few ideas to try out. great looking map, excellent use of fields. thanks :)

Thanks Melissa. 8) Just let me know when you'd like a hint.

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 13, 2011, 03:45:42 PM
Ouaa! This map is really beautiful, I guess the time spent on it, and really respect!

Yep, it took me quite a while, but I also used it to beta-test many features of the nice map editor that Virgil brought us. Hopefully this map will inspire more people to create something nice.

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 04:15:53 PM
we finally get to see the insane UpperKEES map! Hurray! Too bad my computer's crashed. Fate's a (insert word here)

Yeah, I spent more time on it than expected (actually many many more weeks than I anticipated; if I had known I probably never would have started in the first place).

And yes, it can become quite CPU-intensive when you've created many units. On my computer it runs at about 10-15 fps during the toughest part of the game. The good thing is that this will allow you to play more carefully. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 04:44:06 PM
Blarg! Now I really want to see it! by crashed, I mean my computer is blue screen, flat out broke. So once again, fate's a (insert word of choice here)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:49:50 PM
Ah! Well, at least I'm glad it wasn't CW that crashed your computer.

And after reading on these forums about all the trouble you had recently I guess it's time for a new one anyway. Better be nice to your parents next week.... :P

PS: still able to post here? :o
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:49:50 PM
Ah! Well, at least I'm glad it wasn't CW that crashed your computer.

And after reading on these forums about all the trouble you had recently I guess it's time for a new one anyway. Better be nice to your parents next week.... :P

PS: still able to post here? :o
iPod. :D and I have a laptop coming in soon. I was looking into getting a nice laptop anyways...
EDIT: my computer's been dieing for a while now, but I think it's finally made it's last corrupted error report.
EDIT: stole my dad's laptop and looked at this map. AMAZING! I can't imagine how difficult this way to create... graphics, effects, it's got it all. You even have little light thingies for when the ball hits a sensor. :D
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
I am not sure how I would record my play through if I have to save. I will just have to give it a go and see what happens.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 05:55:34 PM
Quote from: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
I am not sure how I would record my play through if I have to save. I will just have to give it a go and see what happens.

Only every now and then a saved game can't be reloaded (it actually loads, but messes up the gravity and build direction). An easy solution for today is to save even more often, because 95% of your games will load fine.

Virgil announced to release a new patch tomorrow which will solve this issue. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 06:04:08 PM
It is more that I like to have a single play through when I record
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 06:06:40 PM
Quote from: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 06:04:08 PM
It is more that I like to have a single play through when I record
Get a video up fast. :P I keep getting killed when those side emitters break free.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 04:57:08 PM
AMAZING! I can't imagine how difficult this way to create... graphics, effects, it's got it all. You even have little light thingies for when the ball hits a sensor. :D

Yeah, I got this idea when Virgil in the CW2 pre-release talk topic mentioned that moving blobs of Creeper would be able to destroy packets on their way. That's more than a year ago now....

Quote from: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 06:04:08 PM
It is more that I like to have a single play through when I record

Ah, you're making a video. Nice, make sure you post a link here! :)

By the way: I'm sure you can merge 2 video's or cut a part out when reloading.

Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 07:00:40 PM
Hmm... The timing is great, the extra ball thing was a nice touch, though musts been a pain. There's also the effects up top which are amazing! The Drones are a nice touch too... Though the phantoms get annoying. Lol.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 07:00:51 PM
Yeah, I can edit the videos. I will probably have a video up once I can beat it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 13, 2011, 08:33:18 PM
After playing for awhile I dont think you will see a video from me, I just dont understand this map I guess.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
No worries, I'll post a few hints in a couple of days, but I'll let everyone try for themselves first.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 13, 2011, 09:56:51 PM
The big problem is that it's a pain in the neck to build anything with that ball flying all around. Oh well, and I thought your cw1 maps were amazing! :P I can't wait to see more from you.
EDIT: I decided to give your map another go... I got my butt kicked again. The majority of my problem is that I spend half the time just watching the ball, and the score thingy. The level's so good, I can add the sound effects in my head. This map is the bane if my existence, I'm easily distracted by... Ooh, look! A bug! *chases bug*
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 02:25:05 AM
Glad to read just watching the map already is entertaining. :) When you're done watching just ignore the ball. As you know from one of Virgil's story maps it's no problem when your weapons get hit by a moving field of Creeper for a short period of time. Of course you'll need to build your civilian buildings in safe spots and while there seems to be ample space available to do so, it's actually possible to generate 90+ energy at the end of the map.

Regarding the music: yeah, I had been thinking about that myself as well! ;D Maybe something for CW3....
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: RichieRich on September 14, 2011, 04:53:21 AM
Wow  ;D  What a seriously cool construct.

I have to admit I havn't a clue how to approach this at this point. Hopefully get some time at the weekend.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 05:28:05 AM
The long wait is over!
Fantastic concept, graphics, and game play...but I'll be working this one for a good long while.
Thanks UK.
dbit
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 07:14:48 AM
KEES, I think you made your map too hard. 200+ downloads, 27 comments, and 1 score. Lmao. If I ever get it, I'll record my attempt. I think I'll have to test it when I have time and figure out where it's safe to build.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on September 14, 2011, 08:55:02 AM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 07:14:48 AM
KEES, I think you made your map too hard. 200+ downloads, 27 comments, and 1 score. Lmao. If I ever get it, I'll record my attempt. I think I'll have to test it when I have time and figure out where it's safe to build.
They'll come in. This is a big map. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 12:12:52 PM
Kees don't play around when it comes to map-making - only first class projects.
You do have to be better than the average bear at playing CW to beat them - or do what I do and wait for the hints.

In the mean time, I just keep firing this thing up and watching that damn ball bounce around.
<Grin>

dbit
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 03:24:19 PM
I'm bound determined to have one of the first scores. I think I know how to do it.... I just don't have the time. Tomorrow night... I will have a score. I will promise you this.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: RichieRich on September 14, 2011, 04:53:21 AM
Wow  ;D  What a seriously cool construct.

Quote from: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 05:28:05 AM
The long wait is over!
Fantastic concept, graphics, and game play...but I'll be working this one for a good long while.
Thanks UK.

Thanks guys. :) Enjoy!

There's more to come in the near future. I have a few concepts in mind, plus a series.

Also, I have to finish my last CW1 map, which should coincide with the release of CW: User Space. (Yes, I do try to keep up with Virgil's schedule. ;))
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
Quote from: Fisherck on September 14, 2011, 08:55:02 AM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 07:14:48 AM
KEES, I think you made your map too hard. 200+ downloads, 27 comments, and 1 score. Lmao. If I ever get it, I'll record my attempt. I think I'll have to test it when I have time and figure out where it's safe to build.
They'll come in. This is a big map. :)

Exactly. This map aims for players who don't mind trying for a few hours or even days. That's what I like myself. :) I just don't enjoy creating rather easy maps, but my next one will be of medium difficulty (to my standards of course ;D).

I'm not bothered by players who give up after 2 tries; this just isn't a map for people looking for a quick game.  I don't mind if this map only gets 10 scores over the next year. Those will be from players who really earned it and showed they like to think while fighting. :)

I bet Kithros is waiting for that new patch to get released (it's in beta now), so he can reload his saved game without problems. Looking forward to his score.

Quote from: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 12:12:52 PM
Kees don't play around when it comes to map-making - only first class projects.
You do have to be better than the average bear at playing CW to beat them - or do what I do and wait for the hints.

Yeah, just wait for the hints if you really got stuck. I'll post the first ones on Friday.

Quote from: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 12:12:52 PM
In the mean time, I just keep firing this thing up and watching that damn ball bounce around.

I have to admit that I still like watching it myself as well.  8)

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 03:24:19 PM
I'm bound determined to have one of the first scores. I think I know how to do it.... I just don't have the time. Tomorrow night... I will have a score. I will promise you this.

Alrighty then! :D
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
I have to admit that I still like watching it myself as well.  8)
PINGPINGPINGBOINGPINGPINGWERRRWERRRWERRRDUNDUNDUN lol. I'm just watching the map, making pinball effects in my head (I hope) But then again, my family's staring at me kinda funny... lmao. That stupid ball moves so fast... are you supposed to be able to kill it before it plops down in the center? Also, I presume i should try to go up right away and grab some crystals? yes/no/maybe?
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
PINGPINGPINGBOINGPINGPINGWERRRWERRRWERRRDUNDUNDUN lol. I'm just watching the map, making pinball effects in my head (I hope) But then again, my family's staring at me kinda funny... lmao.

:P

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
That stupid ball moves so fast... are you supposed to be able to kill it before it plops down in the center?

You might, but I don't expect you to....

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
Also, I presume i should try to go up right away and grab some crystals?

yes/no/maybe?
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 04:12:03 PM
alright, thank you. I'll make a serious attempt tomorrow. I got on my dad's laptop for a sec to look at it and try to see what I could figure out. Gives me something more interesting to think about while working on homework. :P
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 04:21:04 PM
Try to save your game every minute, so you can always fall back to a position that you were satisfied with. This will prevent you from having to go over a rather boring start each time.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 04:21:04 PM
Try to save your game every minute, ...

The 'Save' function is one of the greatest improvements Virgil made with CW2.
If we had that in the old days, I may have been able to finish that one about the horses.
:)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 14, 2011, 05:39:18 PM
Quote from: DethbyIT on September 14, 2011, 04:32:10 PM
If we had that in the old days, I may have been able to finish that one about the horses.

Yeah, and I would surely have replayed some maps more times. I just can't get myself to replaying my own maps again to get a few #1 positions back.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
Ahh! Why did you change Your avatar to the scary pinball?? Lol.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: NNR_Alex on September 14, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
Glad to see you're still around KEES, and you hit the floor running with this one it seems.  I haven't been playing CW1 or 2 all that much but I look forward to seeing how some of the best CW players tackle this map and who can finally beat it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 14, 2011, 11:07:53 PM
I think knowing the order to get things would help a lot.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 11:08:50 PM
Quote from: MadMurphy on September 14, 2011, 11:07:53 PM
I think knowing the order to get things would help a lot.
+2 (my imaginary friend thinks this is a good idea too) lol.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 02:08:27 AM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
Ahh! Why did you change Your avatar to the scary pinball?? Lol.

Just a kind of temporary advertisement. ;)

Quote from: NNR_Alex on September 14, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
Glad to see you're still around KEES, and you hit the floor running with this one it seems.  I haven't been playing CW1 or 2 all that much but I look forward to seeing how some of the best CW players tackle this map and who can finally beat it.

Hey Alexander! That's been a while, nice to see you around as well! :)

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 14, 2011, 11:08:50 PM
Quote from: MadMurphy on September 14, 2011, 11:07:53 PM
I think knowing the order to get things would help a lot.
+2 (my imaginary friend thinks this is a good idea too) lol.

There's no predetermined order, but of course there will always be a best approach (that I don't even know myself yet).

Let me tell you how I start:

Spoiler
1. Regarding order: you've probably noticed that 3 chambers will free themselves because of decaying terrain. You could time these, write the times down and take appropriate action (especially to prevent the capsules from getting destroyed). The same goes later on for the chambers freed by enemy dig packets.
[close]

Spoiler
2. With my initial 20 units of energy I obtain 4 red gems. With this energy I obtain the remaining 8 red gems.
[close]

Spoiler
3. See tip 1 given by Pesky Pinball.
[close]

Spoiler
4. Just a few blasters at strategic positions will help a lot against the drones (that have only 1 health during the first 5 minutes of gameplay, so 1 blaster shot is enough to kill them).
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
Really made ​​a map for the Experts.
I tried everything.

1. I started with the minerals from the top, and then the reactor and construiction blaster but after six, seven minutes there is too much creeper and drone, and the capsules eventually be destroyed.

2.I Started by minerals always have some ressoucre and then I focused on the techs, especially ore rig to fetch nullifiers, so also for nanaships up my reserve of ore in order to extract ore 250. but I lost too much time and the first capsule eventually be destroyed.

3.I Started by me focused on the shield but I have totally failed to get the shields, too much energy wasted.

4.I Started by recovering the ore and then I try and recovered the two cubes in the middle of pinball but to no avail.

I do not know quite what to try to succeed but I love it, I think I even dream that night.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 01:08:01 PM
Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
Really made ​​a map for the Experts.

Yep. ;) And when you've finished this map you will have become one yourself. :)

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
I tried everything.

I'm sure you didn't. :P

Building efficiently is very important of course. A few very general tips that are essential:
- Make sure you always use all energy available.
- Don't build with a deficit when building reactors. Better make sure the ones you build finish faster so they start generating energy sooner. Then build more of them.
- Don't excavate when you have space to build reactors first.
- Pause a lot when building/adding reactors. This will ensure you can keep an eye on your energy levels and add more reactors when the previous ones are completed and/or terrain has been excavated.
- Move your Liberation Ship close to your build site to shorten the supply lines.

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
1. I started with the minerals from the top, and then the reactor and construiction blaster but after six, seven minutes there is too much creeper and drone, and the capsules eventually be destroyed.

That's a good start.

Spoiler
After collecting as many crystals as possible first concentrate on generating as much energy as possible.
[close]

Spoiler
Using about 4 blasters at strategic positions should be enough to keep the drones out.
[close]

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
2.I Started by minerals always have some ressoucre and then I focused on the techs, especially ore rig to fetch nullifiers, so also for nanaships up my reserve of ore in order to extract ore 250. but I lost too much time and the first capsule eventually be destroyed.

Spoiler
Yep, the ore rig tech is one you want to collect as soon as possible.
[close]

Regarding the nanochips:

Spoiler
You indeed need some additional ore storage later on, but I would focus on other upgrades first. More about that tomorrow.
[close]

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
3.I Started by me focused on the shield but I have totally failed to get the shields, too much energy wasted.

Spoiler
Shields will definitely come in handy, but you first need a certain minimum amount of energy to be able to survive and protect the capsules. Obtaining the shield tech indeed is a real energy waster, although it will save you much energy later on.
[close]

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
4.I Started by recovering the ore and then I try and recovered the two cubes in the middle of pinball but to no avail.

Spoiler
I'm afraid it takes too long to obtain the cubes in time if you concentrate on these during the first minutes of the game.
[close]

Quote from: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 03:23:42 AM
I do not know quite what to try to succeed but I love it, I think I even dream that night.

I dream of Creeper, packets and blasters for more than 20 months now and it turns out to be harmless. No worries! ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: FR-seratna on September 15, 2011, 01:51:53 PM
Traduction
Thank you for the advice! I'll try again. I do not promise not to tear my hair.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 15, 2011, 03:34:12 PM
So your building on the walls before digging anything?
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 15, 2011, 03:41:37 PM
If you destroy the paddles, the fields that control them actually make a great shield. :P
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: MadMurphy on September 15, 2011, 03:34:12 PM
So your building on the walls before digging anything?

Nope, because I know the balls will destroy most reactors there. Of course I could have tried to remember/mark/write down the 'safe' cells along the walls, but I never bothered (so my time and score are far from perfect) and I don't expect you to do so. You should be able to beat it by playing in a normal way.

Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 15, 2011, 03:41:37 PM
If you destroy the paddles, the fields that control them actually make a great shield. :P

Yep, they do, but keeping your LS at the bottom of the map probably won't do you any good.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 15, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
I'm hoping to do a test tonight to see which cells on the walls are safe to build on... barring drone interference. I'll take a screen shot with the safe cells marked.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 03:48:11 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 15, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
I'm hoping to do a test tonight to see which cells on the walls are safe to build on... barring drone interference. I'll take a screen shot with the safe cells marked.

That could be a nice help for players who like to make the most out of it. I may even use it myself when aiming for a better time.

Just bear in mind that Creeper will cover parts of the map later on and reactors within the walls of the pinball machine will be safer and easier (cheaper!) to defend.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Kithros on September 15, 2011, 04:15:04 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 03:48:11 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 15, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
I'm hoping to do a test tonight to see which cells on the walls are safe to build on... barring drone interference. I'll take a screen shot with the safe cells marked.

That could be a nice help for players who like to make the most out of it. I may even use it myself when aiming for a better time.

Just bear in mind that Creeper will cover parts of the map later on and reactors within the walls of the pinball machine will be safer and easier (cheaper!) to defend.

Well, truthfully I think with the way this is designed pretty much everyone (who beats the map) will simply rush the digging gateways before the creeper is really widespread - while I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible without doing this - I think that anyone capable of beating it without rushing the gateways will have no trouble rushing the gateways anyway, so this pretty much will only apply to the bottom part of the map I think.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
Yep, the bottom half (about up to the 2 holocubes), unless of course the little chamber on the top right causes trouble during early game, which isn't unimaginable for less advanced players. Keep in mind not everyone is that experienced.

There's no need to rush for anything though (although I would try to obtain the Nullifier tech as soon as possible). I have finished this map before by just exterminating chamber by chamber without using shields or destroying the orange gateways before they were done sending out dig packets. It just requires tight energy management and wise use of your weaponry. The emitters aren't very strong, so you only have to survive the first minute when the dense Creeper leaves the chamber and it takes some experience to know how many weapons you'll need for that and what distance to stay at.

In fact I played rather sloppy (compared to my gameplay when setting highscores for the story maps) and didn't even nullify the orange gateways during the first 16 minutes of gameplay for my current score, so all dig packets were sent out by then. ;)

So, where's your score? I expected you to be the first to submit one....
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
I expected you to be the first to submit one....

And there it is.... SkiWV finished in 71 minutes, so I guess he played without rushing. I completed my first run in 53 minutes (didn't reload often), so it's really possible with 'normal' gameplay.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Kithros on September 16, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
I've been a bit busy so I can't play it for a few days - my laptop is terribly slow so I can't play bigger maps on it well. Also, while I'm not saying this particular score isn't legit, there have been times where SkiWV has had blatantly impossible times on maps so I can't take any of his times anywhere very seriously.

EDIT: For some examples of blatantly impossible times look at map ID 145, and map ID 107 - both feature creeper surrounded by solid terrain that can't possibly be reached until the fields move them, and his times are before those fields activate, so it's a pretty safe bet that some bug/hack is involved.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Cavemaniac on September 16, 2011, 07:49:11 AM


Holy smoke!

The effort and detail that's gone into this map...

I love the way arcade classics keep popping up in CW2 - first Space invaders, then Centipede, now a pinball table! Maybe some others I missed too.

Can't wait to see 'Frogger' reimagined as a CW2 map!
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: DethbyIT on September 16, 2011, 11:20:54 AM
Quote from: Kithros on September 16, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
I've been a bit busy so I can't play it for a few days - my laptop is terribly slow so I can't play bigger maps on it well. Also, while I'm not saying this particular score isn't legit, there have been times where SkiWV has had blatantly impossible times on maps so I can't take any of his times anywhere very seriously.

EDIT: For some examples of blatantly impossible times look at map ID 145, and map ID 107 - both feature creeper surrounded by solid terrain that can't possibly be reached until the fields move them, and his times are before those fields activate, so it's a pretty safe bet that some bug/hack is involved.

Real glad someone else noticed that.
dbit
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: Kithros on September 16, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
I've been a bit busy so I can't play it for a few days - my laptop is terribly slow so I can't play bigger maps on it well. Also, while I'm not saying this particular score isn't legit, there have been times where SkiWV has had blatantly impossible times on maps so I can't take any of his times anywhere very seriously.

Ah, good to know. Now I remember that name being mentioned before....

I sure hope you believe my score is valid though! ;) Like I said it was set without destroying the digging gateways prematurely.

Quote from: Cavemaniac on September 16, 2011, 07:49:11 AM
Holy smoke!

The effort and detail that's gone into this map...

I love the way arcade classics keep popping up in CW2 - first Space invaders, then Centipede, now a pinball table! Maybe some others I missed too.

Can't wait to see 'Frogger' reimagined as a CW2 map!

Yeah, I actually thought of making a series of classic arcade games. Maybe I will, but probably I won't, because it just takes too much time to get it all right to my standards. On the other hand it's very satisfying when it finally works out the way I planned it (or better), so it's very well possible that I can't resist once I've got my mind set on it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Micheal420 on September 16, 2011, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Kithros on September 16, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
I've been a bit busy so I can't play it for a few days - my laptop is terribly slow so I can't play bigger maps on it well. Also, while I'm not saying this particular score isn't legit, there have been times where SkiWV has had blatantly impossible times on maps so I can't take any of his times anywhere very seriously.

EDIT: For some examples of blatantly impossible times look at map ID 145, and map ID 107 - both feature creeper surrounded by solid terrain that can't possibly be reached until the fields move them, and his times are before those fields activate, so it's a pretty safe bet that some bug/hack is involved.

yeah i agree with you as well i think he has some kind of hack for those maps , just something does not add up
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 01:08:01 PM
Regarding the nanochips:

You indeed need some additional ore storage later on, but I would focus on other upgrades first. More about that tomorrow.

Time for a few more tips about the first minute of the game:

Spoiler
When you have enough energy from collected crystals (you're probably still collecting them at this point), you'll want to obtain some nanochips as well. They're only worth 5 technytes each, but they'll prove to be very valuable.
[close]

Spoiler
You haven't built any reactors yet and maybe just one blaster is being built when the technytes start coming in. In the meanwhile the pinball is consuming your valuable packets of energy. Now think: what would be the best upgrade(s) to prevent this from happening? The sooner you apply these upgrade(s) the better.
[close]

Edit: typo
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: snowmaker (JM) on September 16, 2011, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 15, 2011, 01:08:01 PM
Regarding the nanochips:

You indeed need some additional ore storage later on, but I would focus on other upgrades first. More about that tomorrow.

Time for a few more tips about the first minute of the game:

Spoiler
When you have enough energy from collected crystals (you're probably still collecting them at this point), you'll want to obtain some nanochips as well. They're only worth 5 technytes each, but they'll prove to be very valuable.
[close]

Spoiler
You haven't build any reactors yet and maybe just one blaster is being built when the technytes start coming in. In the meanwhile the pinball is consuming your valuable packets of energy. Now think: what would be the best upgrade(s) to prevent this from happening? The sooner you apply these upgrade(s) the better.
[close]

Kees, you should be a teacher! That's what I do with my students.... help them think so that they learn  ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 04:17:33 PM
Quote from: snowmaker (JM) on September 16, 2011, 04:10:41 PM
Kees, you should be a teacher! That's what I do with my students.... help them think so that they learn  ;)

Yeah, giving it all away would be too easy and wouldn't be of any help for future maps.

I am from a family of teachers by the way and I enjoy giving tutorials/workshops for the software systems I develop. :) (These are more complex than my maps. ;))
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 16, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
KEES, pretty soon I think you're gonna beat me for most downloaded map... The comments page on this one has already blown mine out of the water... But will the map itself get to 700 downloads? (mines currently at 639, but will likely get higher)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 16, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
KEES, pretty soon I think you're gonna beat me for most downloaded map... The comments page on this one has already blown mine out of the water... But will the map itself get to 700 downloads? (mines currently at 639, but will likely get higher)

Not sure, but I don't mind, because I understood your map is a very good one as well. Gonna play it soon!

More tips for this one tomorrow....
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 16, 2011, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 16, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Ebon Heart on September 16, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
KEES, pretty soon I think you're gonna beat me for most downloaded map... The comments page on this one has already blown mine out of the water... But will the map itself get to 700 downloads? (mines currently at 639, but will likely get higher)

Not sure, but I don't mind, because I understood your map is a very good one as well. Gonna play it soon!

More tips for this one tomorrow....
Thanks for the compliment. :D but I'll be the first to admit that that map is really sort of famous just for being famous. It stirred up some infamy among newbs and became popular. Lol.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Gerhard on September 17, 2011, 10:55:40 AM
Hi
Thank you for creating this map.  :)
It is really good and very difficult. It was one big fight from the beginning till the end.
I have no idea how to do this in 20 minutes. I have to wait for more tips to understand how this is possible.  ???
Gerhard
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 17, 2011, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Gerhard on September 17, 2011, 10:55:40 AM
Hi
Thank you for creating this map.  :)
It is really good and very difficult.

Hi Gerhard, thanks! :)

Let me use this opportunity to thank MadMag once more. He created the awesome graphics (background, tiles and the Pesky Pinball character) that gave this map a real pinball machine look.

Quote from: Gerhard on September 17, 2011, 10:55:40 AM
It was one big fight from the beginning till the end.

Ah, more scores coming in now! (Great time Karsten! Well done! 8)) I think I'll be doing one more run myself next weekend; I need a break first.

Quote from: Gerhard on September 17, 2011, 10:55:40 AM
I have no idea how to do this in 20 minutes. I have to wait for more tips to understand how this is possible.  ???
Gerhard

Let me start with saying that there's no need to finish this map in 20 minutes. Just being able to finish it is a nice achievement by itself and shows you are very well capable of handling all game mechanics.

That said I know most people like to improve themselves. I know I do. It all starts with playing efficiently (see a couple of posts back for tips about that). To be able to complete this map as fast as possible you'll have to prevent the Creeper from spreading, because dense Creeper can be killed faster and with less energy.

For this the shield tech comes in very handy. If you're able to stop the enemy dig packets from getting dispersed that's even better (although I didn't do this; I just made sure I was ready in time).

Generating technytes with your tech domes also helps, as it will make your weapons better. Finding the right balance between building, fighting, moving and obtaining objects is probably the hardest part and only getting more experience by playing will contribute to getting a good feel for this.

I'll post some more tips later on (starting tonight, Dutch time). You'll see you'll get a much better score when you'd replay the map (I took 30 minutes off my initial score when I did).
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 17, 2011, 06:20:22 PM
Tip regarding movement of the LS:

Spoiler
I move up along the right side towards the red, green and blue crystals. I take all nanochips along the way as well. When I've reached the top I move a little to the left and start digging for the Ore Rig tech. In the meanwhile I collect the white crystals and the nanochips on the top left. You still hardly haven't built anything, so what's the best upgrade to pick now?
[close]

Time to start building (screenshot included):

Spoiler
To be able to build safely you'll have to dig first (a few cells on the inner wall being the exception). The area indicated with "1" is the largest (and closest) one, so that's a good start. Make sure you don't forget to build some beacons so you can move your LS downwards. Keep an eye on your energy levels and pick up the white crystals on the left as soon as possible.

(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8083.0;attach=5916;image)

When a beacon lightens area 2 start digging and building there. Move your LS to the center and start building 2 ore rigs when you've obtained the tech. In the meanwhile collect the white crystals on the right. After that you can start filling up the area's indicated with "3".
[close]

Stay tuned if you still don't make it....
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 20, 2011, 04:26:46 PM
While building your reactors and tech domes (see tips above) you want to do 2 more things:

Spoiler
Start with the bunker(s) besides the display at the top of the map. Not because they are in danger, but because they will supply you with more useful technytes.
[close]

Spoiler
Make sure you have a few blasters and launchers ready when the terrain below area 2 has decayed. This emitter isn't very strong, but you don't want it to destroy your new buildings. At first it may seem like you can't hold back the Creeper, but this is just the pressure that has build up inside the chamber. After a short while your launchers will control the place and this is the moment to shut them down. Keep only 1 of them firing along with a few blasters to prevent the Creeper from flowing up.
[close]

Also:

Spoiler
Keep an eye on your energy collection/deficit, because you need to keep collecting that nullifier tech. Every second this gets delayed, your weapons will be wasting precious energy.
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 20, 2011, 09:47:18 PM
nice bump. :P I'll help. lmao. It's getting close... Is it bad that I'm actually rooting for your map to beat mine?
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Ebon Heart on September 25, 2011, 01:21:49 PM
This map now has the most downloads of any cw2 map, and is the most viewed topic in the cw2 custom maps section. Good job UpperKEES!
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on September 28, 2011, 04:17:18 PM
My last tips on this one:

Spoiler
While building up your force to be able to withstand the Creeper soon to be released, you may also want to start obtaining the repulsor tech and (if your energy levels allow for that) the shield tech. Although you can't use repulsors nor shields in area's where the ball bounces around, shields will be very useful to keep the Creeper at bay so you can use launchers to lower the density in the chambers. The repulsors will come in handy when building your nullifiers close to the emitters.
[close]

Spoiler
As soon as the nullifier tech has become available, try to destroy as many gateways as possible, so you can build a shield in its place. It's not necessary to do this, but it will save you lots of time.
[close]

Spoiler
When you have some idle launchers, use them to eliminate the Creeper in front of the capsules. The Creeper there is dense, so it will take a while, but the reward (in technytes) is worth it.
[close]

Of course I'm willing to give more tips & hints, but only in reply to requests, so please tell me where and when you get stuck (feel free to post a screenshot). :)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Colin on September 28, 2011, 04:31:54 PM
Heh, I still haven't beaten this one KEES, but I
haven't looked at any of your hints yet, because
I'm trying to beat it on my own.

@ Ebon,
Well of course! UpperKEES usually doesn't "produce"
nearly as many maps as other people, but when he
finally releases one or two, they get swamped.
Because he is the "original veteran" CW player, and
everyone knows it.  ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on September 29, 2011, 09:12:58 AM
Now that I have free time and plenty of hints ill try this map again. I will try recording my attempts in the off chance I beat it.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Colin on September 29, 2011, 12:13:51 PM
Part of what makes this map so hard for me I think,
is that I hardly EVER use the save game feature . .
So I'll try saving every minute and a half or so and
see if I can't make any progress . .
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: thepenguin on October 01, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
this map presents an interesting use of the "nor'easter technique".

I've been trying to beat this map ever since it was submitted, haven't succeeded yet.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 03, 2011, 02:22:00 AM
Quote from: thepenguin on October 01, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
this map presents an interesting use of the "nor'easter technique".

Good point that I forgot to mention. :)

Spoiler
It's indeed convenient to set up a few microrifts in the different area's of the map and park the Liberation Ship in front of one of them. This will prevent many packets from being eaten by the Creeper ball (and of course speed up energy transport).
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: F0R on October 04, 2011, 05:51:38 PM
Kill me now plz
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 05, 2011, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: F0R on October 04, 2011, 05:51:38 PM
Kill me now plz

I'll let the Creeper do that for me if you don't mind. ;)

Did you try all tips posted? (Also see previous pages.)

Where and when do you get stuck? (A screenshot helps a lot.)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 08, 2011, 12:22:03 PM
In reply to a request in chat by thepenguin:

Quote from: UpperKEES on September 13, 2011, 04:25:39 PM
I limited the amount of shields so you can't block the entire pinball. :P This is something you'll experience even more in the last part of the map (albeit less when the terrain above the bottom right emitter hasn't been dug out). "The venom is in the tail" as we say here, so you'll have to develop a special technique for the final part.

More about this technique now. It consists out of 3 parts:

When you've gotten this far (well done TP!), you will notice that it's impossible to sustain your weapons because of the distance the packets have to travel through the shaft while the Creeper balls eat them about every 15 seconds. Even with maximum packet speed your weapons will starve.

Spoiler
Microrifts are the solution to this, but you'll need to protect them against the Creeper balls shooting upwards. For this you'll need to build 2-3 shields first, all in front of it, so an entire side of the Creeper ball gets blocked, see screenshot.

(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8083.0;attach=6087;image)

This will release a lot of Creeper, so better have some weapons ready to handle that right away, before your shields get destroyed. Then move forward and rebuild some shields again.
[close]

Space is limited in the shaft, so you probably want to have some more fire power, especially near the bottom.

Spoiler
Again microrifts are the solution. Launchers are able to fire their missiles through MR's, as long as both microrifts and the target are within range! (Again see screenshot.) This means you can have lots of launchers on the other side of the wall still capable of reaching the Creeper.
[close]

Finally you'll want to build a nullifier to destroy the emitter. Three types of units will comes in handy here:

Spoiler
- Repulsors to push the Creeper down.
- Shields; place them in such a way that they will protect the nullifier.
- Makers; make you you have them charged and ready to burst their load of anti-Creeper at the desired locations (close to the nullifier). Better use small bursts at the time than huge amounts at once. The makers aren't really necessary by the way; I've also beaten this map without using them, but it sure helps.
[close]

When you have been able to destroy the 2 orange gateways before the terrain was dug away by the enemy dig packets it all becomes a lot easier, but even then you may want to use the above tips for the final part.
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: thepenguin on October 09, 2011, 07:17:41 PM
this map is finally off my KEES
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on October 20, 2011, 11:08:31 PM
I think I finally reached the point where this map will hold no more surprises for me. Every time I thought I finally reached the turning point, something or another manages to open up or break. :D Unfortunately, I've had to nibble away at this very difficult map one day at a time over the past few weeks. :P That and my receding playing abilty (I haven't had much time to hone my skills...) is making my score not quite as good as I would like. I'm thinking I'll finally have this map beat tommorow. Then I can say I beat it. 8)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 21, 2011, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: Fisherck on October 20, 2011, 11:08:31 PM
I think I finally reached the point where this map will hold no more surprises for me. Every time I thought I finally reached the turning point, something or another manages to open up or break. :D Unfortunately, I've had to nibble away at this very difficult map one day at a time over the past few weeks. :P That and my receding playing abilty (I haven't had much time to hone my skills...) is making my score not quite as good as I would like. I'm thinking I'll finally have this map beat tommorow. Then I can say I beat it. 8)

Looking forward to your score and approach(!), so feel free to post a screeny.

Did you already set a score without uploading it yet? If not, there might be one more surprise for you.... :P (Assuming you haven't used the hints I posted.)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on October 21, 2011, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 21, 2011, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: Fisherck on October 20, 2011, 11:08:31 PM
I think I finally reached the point where this map will hold no more surprises for me. Every time I thought I finally reached the turning point, something or another manages to open up or break. :D Unfortunately, I've had to nibble away at this very difficult map one day at a time over the past few weeks. :P That and my receding playing abilty (I haven't had much time to hone my skills...) is making my score not quite as good as I would like. I'm thinking I'll finally have this map beat tommorow. Then I can say I beat it. 8)

Looking forward to your score and approach(!), so feel free to post a screeny.

Did you already set a score without uploading it yet? If not, there might be one more surprise for you.... :P (Assuming you haven't used the hints I posted.)

I haven't set a score yet. Uh oh... But if I have learned anything in this map, it's to keep looking behind my back, even when I don't think anything is going to happen ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on October 23, 2011, 03:55:04 PM
Well, I did it. I was a little off the best time (only 49 minutes ;)). This map is chalk full of neverending surprises. :)
I think what I did wrong, was that I was too offensive, and tried to hold as much ground as possible. My technique obviously was not the fastest. ;)
What I did for the end though
Spoiler
was I kept some crystal energy left over so I could use more than 60 energy per a second. That really came in handy. A big blunder I did though was not grabbing the shield tech. I had to fight my way down to get it.
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 23, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
Wow, when it takes even the great Fisherck 69 minutes to finish, this map is definitely harder than I intended.

I will create a medium version of this map next week, so everyone will be able to finish it without too much trouble.

My respect for you completing this map while only using the shield tech for the final part! 8) *takes off hat and bows*
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on October 23, 2011, 07:21:48 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 23, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
Wow, when it takes even the great Fisherck 69 minutes to finish, this map is definitely harder than I intended.

I will create a medium version of this map next week, so everyone will be able to finish it without too much trouble.

My playing ability is starting to get a little stale with the lack of time I've had to play. ;D But I think a medium version would be a great idea.

Quote from: UpperKEES on October 23, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
My respect for you completing this map while only using the shield tech for the final part! 8) *takes off hat and bows*

It was more stupidity than achievement. But ironically, I actually saved to much on this map. By the time I realised the importance of the shield tech, and the fact that I could not get it (at that point), I had already gone and saved over any points where I could get it. So I just decided to suck it up and keep going. ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on October 24, 2011, 02:52:29 PM
Quote from: Fisherck on October 23, 2011, 07:21:48 PM
It was more stupidity than achievement. But ironically, I actually saved to much on this map. By the time I realised the importance of the shield tech, and the fact that I could not get it (at that point), I had already gone and saved over any points where I could get it. So I just decided to suck it up and keep going. ;)

Yeah, 8 slots isn't that much for large and/or hard maps. I often move all saved games to a new folder so I can always go back to them. In fact during beta I proposed to have a folder with slots for each map you play.

Quote from: UpperKEES on September 17, 2011, 11:39:25 AM
Ah, more scores coming in now! (Great time Karsten! Well done! 8))

Hey, where did Karsten's score go? Did Virgil remove it from the score database? And why? (It was about 40 seconds faster than mine and I was still going to beat it some day.)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Fisherck on October 24, 2011, 07:32:50 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 24, 2011, 02:52:29 PM
Quote from: UpperKEES on September 17, 2011, 11:39:25 AM
Ah, more scores coming in now! (Great time Karsten! Well done! 8))

Hey, where did Karsten's score go? Did Virgil remove it from the score database? And why? (It was about 40 seconds faster than mine and I was still going to beat it some day.)

That is wierd. His score was there when I uploaded mine. It only just disappeared...
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: Bongo on August 25, 2012, 09:44:49 AM
I thought I was missing some obvious strategy so I looked here. 1714 downloads, available for over 1 year, and still only 7 scores. I think that says it all. :P

(Apparently 1707 other people didn't get the obvious strategy either.)
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: UpperKEES on January 26, 2013, 02:11:00 AM
Quote from: Bongo on August 25, 2012, 09:44:49 AM
I thought I was missing some obvious strategy so I looked here. 1714 downloads, available for over 1 year, and still only 7 scores. I think that says it all. :P

(Apparently 1707 other people didn't get the obvious strategy either.)

Getting the strategy is one thing. Executing it properly is another story. ;)

This is why I rated the map 'Expert Only'; I didn't expect more than 10 scores for it.

That said, I already promised to create a 'medium' version and I could still do that of course. For this easier version I could:

1. Decrease emitter intensities & intervals;
2. Increase phantom intervals;
3. Reposition the location of the shield tech (10-20 rows up);
4. Make some terrain decay slower.

Many other events are 'triggered' by the creeper ball (i.e. drones and dig packet dispatching), so I won't be able to adjust these (without redesigning the entire map).
Title: Re: Custom Map #195: Liberation Pinball
Post by: MadMurphy on March 31, 2013, 10:45:28 PM
So I am thinking about giving this one a shot again. Do you have any more hints to share?

It has been a long time and still only a few people have even completed this map.