Custom Map #2813: Puzzler - 2

Started by AutoPost, February 21, 2017, 01:14:18 PM

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AutoPost

This topic is for discussion of map #2813: Puzzler - 2


Author: Bongo

Desc:
* Puzzle map in the style of Yum234's puzzle maps * save often *

Bongo

Ok those times are in the absurd range. I'm guessing it's the long winding passage with the refreshing creeper fields. It's funny because I actually made that part LESS hard 2 or 3 times, before submission. :) Here's how I did it (in about 4.5 minutes). I hope this helps.

powmia1972

I am stuck in the middle section-- how do you get thru the rocks with the X on them-- i have spent 150 minutes just trying to get thru the second section (with blue and white creeper)

Karsten75

Quote from: powmia1972 on February 26, 2017, 09:49:54 PM
I am stuck in the middle section-- how do you get thru the rocks with the X on them-- i have spent 150 minutes just trying to get thru the second section (with blue and white creeper)

Rock can only be removed by enemy dig packets coming out of an gateway. These packets must not be blocked by friendly creeper.

Bongo

Hew sounds really new this might help as well.

Spoiler

There is a bug feature where if the Creeper / Anti-Creeper goes above 2,147,000,000 it "flips" to the opposite type. Notice that the dots of Anti-Creeper are exactly 2,147,000,000. I wonder if a Maker dumped a few thousand units of Anti-Creeper on those would they turn to Creeper and allow the Gateway Dig Packets to get through?

That top part might be a little hairy for especially green newbies. Throw 50+ Mirrors at the Drones to move forward a few spaces.

Also for newbies. There's another bug feature where if you have AT LEAST one Crystal you can output ALL of your collected energy, but if you have no Crystals you max energy output is ONLY 60, no matter how much energy you are producing.
[close]

Good luck!

PartyFlava

#5
I couldn't beat this map. I don't know how you managed to get your lasers around the corner into that rocky area at the top left. I can't get a mirror there for the life of me, the droids blow it up before it can activate. I literally sat there making mirrors and shoving them in there for 20 minutes. After ~100 constructed mirrors and attempts to move them into place, I just gave up. Up to that point it was pretty good, though. Maybe a little *too* long of a winding passage. I'd love to see a toned down version of this map. My current time up to that point is like 90 minutes.

This mirror, no idea how you got it there:

Spoiler
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Karsten75

Quote from: PartyFlava on March 02, 2017, 12:22:43 PM

This mirror, no idea how you got it there:

Spoiler
[close]

In my case it was exquisite timing and a fair dollop of luck.

Bongo's remarks on the map overall, I feel need a few extra comments and an interesting observation.

Quote from: Bongo on February 27, 2017, 06:15:33 PM

Spoiler

There is a bug feature where if the Creeper / Anti-Creeper goes above 2,147,000,000 it "flips" to the opposite type. Notice that the dots of Anti-Creeper are exactly 2,147,000,000. I wonder if a Maker dumped a few thousand units of Anti-Creeper on those would they turn to Creeper and allow the Gateway Dig Packets to get through?
[close]

"Flipping" creeper/Anti-Creeper is a design choice. It was "discovered" on one of the concept maps before beta-testing began. (I doubt that map ever made it into the game. Same map that "discovered" entombed creeper.) In general the way to flip high-density creeper involves using beams.  Lately it seems that this technique is only effective for beams aiming left-to right or bottom-to-top. Speculation is that this involves the "bug fix" that was regressed in V. 801 to allow other maps to function. Hopefully you got the memo on that? ;)

Your idea of using Makers is innovative and actually unearthed a long-dormant bug.At one very precise number of anti-creeper, the flipping can't function and the (anti-) Creeper can't render either - it's there, it just don't show up. Has to do with C number representation. My guess is that it won't be fixed, but will serve as a heads-up in a future game.

Quote
Spoiler


That top part might be a little hairy for especially green newbies. Throw 50+ Mirrors at the Drones to move forward a few spaces.

Also for newbies. There's another bug feature where if you have AT LEAST one Crystal you can output ALL of your collected energy, but if you have no Crystals you max energy output is ONLY 60, no matter how much energy you are producing.
[close]

Again, not a bug. A design feature. It was going to be removed, but popular acclaim during beta-testing enshrined this and it can now safely be called a feature.

Bongo

@PartyFlava

Did I say 50 Mirrors? I meant a HUNDRED Mirrors all at once. Imagine EVERY space below that corner Mirror filled with a Mirror Destination (green square).

Notice that there's only like 5 mirrors past that point not being used? Those were the only ones to survive. It also helps if the Mirrors don't all come at once. Turn off extra Micro-Rifts, where the Mirrors are made, so that the Mirrors form a LINE going to their destination(s). This way when a Drone hits a mirror it ONLY hits one and not 50 all at once. A Drone can kill 50 Mirrors at once, just like a Shield can kill 50 Drones at once. Also don't put a specific Mirror in that corner: As the line of Mirrors goes by when there is a Drone gap pick the CLOSEST Mirror to that spot to move it there. Lastly as mirrors die and their Destination Squares disappear move more Mirrors (stored closer to Micro-Rifts) there ASAP. Don't wait for large number of spaces.

You can also press "P" (pause) and "N" next Frame to do precision adjustments. You can use this to "shoot" Drones with the Dark Beam in several directions at once by activating / turning / deactivating Mirrors in each frame.

Good Luck!

Bongo

@Karsten75

I wasn't complaining about the "features". They are actually fun. It's just that a lot of them are not clearly spelled out for new players, at least not when I started. Maybe someone made a guide since then?

I can't count how many times a newbie mapmaker has given me enough room to make 200 energy but no Crystal so I'm limited to 60. I also never saw the keyboard shortcuts list anywhere either.

P - Pause
N - Next Frame
R - See map with no ground (mappers always make "hidden" Creeper not knowing this shortcut.)
X - destroy unit

Some people like the finding out things for themselves. Others find it very annoying.

Karsten75

Granted, the "N"-key isn't there.


prk

#10
Quote from: PartyFlava on March 02, 2017, 12:22:43 PM
I couldn't beat this map. I don't know how you managed to get your lasers around the corner into that rocky area at the top left. I can't get a mirror there for the life of me, the droids blow it up before it can activate.

Quote from: Bongo on February 27, 2017, 06:15:33 PM
Throw 50+ Mirrors at the Drones to move forward a few spaces.

Regarding getting around the top left corner:  There is another, perhaps more reliable way that does not use 50+ mirrors.

Spoiler

Get yourself in a position somewhat like the following:



Then, simply place blasters on each empty square in the top row, starting on the left side and working to the right.  Yes, you will place blasters on creeper.  Yes, most of the blasters will not be able to resupply.  However, the blasters will have enough life and ammunition to last for several seconds.  Once you get a blaster on the right above the doorway looking down, then use mirrors and a dark beam to destroy the creeper to the left of that blaster.  This will allow the blaster to resupply from the nearby microrift.  You can then build another microrift to the right of that blaster.  You can then bring more blasters through this new microrift and advance downward.  Establish a beachhead of blasters below doorway.  Yes, the doorway is blocked with creeper and these blasters will not be able to resupply.  But they will last long enough to allow you to move the mirror one square to the right, clearing out the doorway.  Blasters in the beachhead will not be able to resupply.  Use pause liberally throughout the entire maneuver so that you can control the timing of the placement of each blaster.  You may lose a few blasters, but I believe the maneuver should work reliably.  The blasters I used had partially upgraded range and rate of fire.
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Quote from: Karsten75 on March 02, 2017, 01:35:30 PM
Lately it seems that this technique is only effective for beams aiming left-to right or bottom-to-top. Speculation is that this involves the "bug fix" that was regressed in V. 801 to allow other maps to function.

Spoiler

I believe I have used beams pointing down, and to the left, and at 45 degree angles to flip anti-creeper.  The trick is to push anti-creeper only into the target square, and not out of it.  So placement of the beam is key.  Also, if you happen to push creeper into the square, that may impede flipping.  However, I have not experimented with it enough to completely understand the effects.  It may also be that it is easier to flip anti-creeper using beams in certain directions.  But I am not sure there is any direction from which it is impossible.
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Binz

Not sure what everyone's complaining about. I'm at 25 minutes gameplay and have my beams blasting the nexus already.
I have a different problem though, that I'm surprised no one has mentioned. My nexus is not charging, it doesn't even show a loading percentage.

From other maps, I seem to remember that a nexus won't charge if no creeper touches it, so I started bombaring the Anti-Creeper field with additional AC in an attempt to reach the limit and 'flip' the field so the nexus blasts open the passage to the capsule. But the density is currently -6000k. Getting it to -2470M (or whatever the flip rate is) will take me a lifetime.

Since this post is already jammed with spoilers, please spoil me this one.  :)

Thanks!

Karsten75

Quote from: Binz on August 02, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
Not sure what everyone's complaining about. I'm at 25 minutes gameplay and have my beams blasting the nexus already.
I have a different problem though, that I'm surprised no one has mentioned. My nexus is not charging, it doesn't even show a loading percentage.

From other maps, I seem to remember that a nexus won't charge if no creeper touches it, so I started bombaring the Anti-Creeper field with additional AC in an attempt to reach the limit and 'flip' the field so the nexus blasts open the passage to the capsule. But the density is currently -6000k. Getting it to -2470M (or whatever the flip rate is) will take me a lifetime.

Since this post is already jammed with spoilers, please spoil me this one.  :)

Thanks!

Great job! I believe my best time on this map is 10 minutes and change. I do not believe you can flip AC of that size. It has been a while since I played this map and the memories of playing it is vague. I do believe, though that you probably have to  get rid of the AC rather than flip it.

Karsten75

I'm an idiot. Had to replay to figure it out. Just destroy the Nexus. Since it's a map where you have to collect stuff, the life pod will be accessible after the Nexus' destruction.

Binz

Quote from: Karsten75 on August 02, 2017, 02:41:09 PM
I'm an idiot. Had to replay to figure it out. Just destroy the Nexus. Since it's a map where you have to collect stuff, the life pod will be accessible after the Nexus' destruction.

I don't think I've ever played a map where destroying a nexus didn't equal the end of the mission, so I didn't realize that destroying it before it build up would create the same crater as it would otherwise.

You helped me put what I feel is a decent time on the scoreboard.
Thanks for the input!