Knuckle Cracker

Misc. => Builder's Corner => Topic started by: Blaze on November 02, 2012, 03:35:03 AM

Title: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on November 02, 2012, 03:35:03 AM
Old Post
So, we don't have the money now, but it's always good to price things out and in general think ahead.
So that when I do go to buy things to upgrade it, I'll already know what to go for.

I was thinking on upgrading my computer, not total overhaul, just get it better then what it is now, without costing a fortune.
The upgrades I have in mind are mouse/mousepad, keyboard, graphics card and possibly the processor.

However, aside from the mouse, keyboard and mousepad, I'm not sure if the items I want/decide to go with would be compatible either virtually, or physically.
They should be physically as I have a pretty decently sized case.

Anyhow, the items I was looking at.

Graphics Card.

Keyboard.

Mouse. (Not from the website, the nearby Best Buy has it for around 40$.)

Mousepad.

I'm not sure on the processor, I want something better, but I have no idea what to get, or even how to install it! :D
I pretty much know how to install a graphics card, since I removed one, so it's the just same steps in reverse.
Of course I'm going to find help on these when I go to do it, I do not want to break my only computer.

Currently as it is, it's a decently well rounded computer, able to run most games I play at med-low to med-high with average frame-rate, but it could be better.
Such as I run CoH on low at 20-25 fps a normal match, not one of my crazy mod-induced 4 hour matches, I get around 8-13 on those.
And on Vindictus/TF2/L4D2/all source engine games everywhere, I run at med to med-high and get 30-40 frames.
I'm not looking to run stuff like Call of Duty or Battlefield 3, in fact the most game I have trouble with would be Company of Heros, or Planetside 2 if you count being able to run it at 5-10 fps. ::)
I think my end goal would be to run CoH on high and get 30-40 fps, and Planetside 2 at med-low with 30+ fps.

So what I'm asking is does anybody have any thoughts/suggestions on what I should go after?
I'm pretty much dead-set on the keyboard/mouse/mousepad, but will still accept thoughts/suggestions.

Now of course I'm not going to ask this question without providing information on my computer, that will be at the end of the post in a spoiler.
As will any other information that I might provide/be requested to provide.
If any other information is required, say so with instructions on how to access and copy said information.

Sniped a lot of information I thought would be unnecessary.
Info from DxDiag

         Processor: AMD A6-3650 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (4 CPUs), ~2.6GHz
   DirectX Version: DirectX 11

         Card name: AMD Radeon HD 6530D
    Display Memory: 4070 MB
  Dedicated Memory: 493 MB
     Shared Memory: 3577 MB
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Windows Experience Index

Processor AMD A6-3650 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 7.2
Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB 7.4
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6530D 5.9
Gaming graphics 4089 MB Total available graphics memory 6.5
Primary hard disk 683GB Free (915GB Total) 5.9
Windows 7 Home Premium

System  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
 Model p7-1234
 Total amount of system memory 8.00 GB RAM
 System type 64-bit operating system
 Number of processor cores 4

Storage  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Total size of hard disk(s) 931 GB
 Disk partition (C:) 683 GB Free (915 GB Total)
 Disk partition (D:) 2 GB Free (17 GB Total)
 Media drive (E:) CD/DVD

Graphics  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Display adapter type AMD Radeon HD 6530D
 Total available graphics memory 4089 MB
       Dedicated graphics memory 512 MB
       Dedicated system memory 0 MB
       Shared system memory 3577 MB
 Display adapter driver version 9.2.0.0
 Primary monitor resolution 1920x1080
 DirectX version DirectX 10

Network  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Network Adapter Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
 Network Adapter 802.11n Wireless LAN Card
 Network Adapter Hamachi Network Interface
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport
 Network Adapter GFI Software Firewall NDIS IM Filter Miniport

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I've got a birthday coming up (July 5th for those wondering), and since I don't really want any games this year, I've decided to gun for a new graphics card to get rid of this low performance integrated card that is my current bottle neck.
Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 Is the card I'm looking at, not sure if it's the best so I figured I'd ask here.
I have a 300W supply, I'm pretty sure I'll have to upgrade this, however I don't know where to start with that, but I did read that around 500-600W is a good area to hit.

I'll attach some pictures of the inside of my computer so everyone can give more solid advice.
I'm not taking any risks with this which is why I'll get pictures to post here.
Last thing I want is to buy a card or power supply that won't fit my computer.

Bear in mind my computer is OEM, I don't know if this will have any effect on upgrading it, hoping it won't though.
It was hard enough just to overclock my processor from 2.6 GHz to 4.0 GHz...

First picture is the left half illuminated.
Second picture is the right half illuminated.
Third picture is where I believe the card would be placed, but I am running on around four hours of sleep so I'm not sure.

I tried to take a picture of the label on my power supply, but they came out too blurry every time.
If any other pictures are needed, let me know and I'll get them.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Creeperkingpin on November 02, 2012, 08:55:32 AM
Well if your going to upgrade all of that, throw in some high quality RAM as well or youll just bevlimited by lack of that instead.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on November 02, 2012, 11:03:00 AM
Hi Blaze.
  I'm a pretty keen amateur computer builder and I spend a lot of time building computers for my family.

Here are some of my observations:

Graphics card. The one you linked is a previous-generation card. You can find  better performance at lower power utilization in the Radeon HD 7000 series. I think I've seen Radeon HD 7750 cards in that price range and they smoke the 6000 series.

I have no opinion on mice or keyboards - I mostly use the cheapest one that suits my needs. If I have to spend money on these, then for keyboards I'd look for a lighted, CherryMX type keyboard. Most modern mice doesn't really need a mousepad, if you do buy one, I guess it's a matter of personal taste, so whatever suits you would be fine.

When upgrading the processor, make sure you get one that is slot-compatible with your existing motherboard and processor, otherwise things will get expensive.

Also investigate your power supply and make sure it has adequate capacity for both the graphics card and the processor.

On the motherboard, you should have a PCIe-x16 2.0 (or 3.0 on newer boards) slot for the graphics card. Not many  cards use or support older slots.

You didn't mention how much memory you have, but generally, if you have little, the best and easiest upgrade is to upgrade memory. If you run a 32-bit OS, then 4GB of memory is nice. If you run a 64-bit OS, then depending on your processor and motherboard, between 8 and 16 is pretty good (and affordable). Make sure once again you investigate your motherboard/processor. Some AMD processors requires triple-channel memory, which means you will install memory in increment of 3. Most Intel boards uses dual-channel, which means you install in increments of 2. A few high-end Intel boards use quad-channel which of course requires increments of 4.

What would be nice is if you could run your Windows Experience Index and post it here. From that we can see which upgrades might give you the best bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on November 02, 2012, 02:16:38 PM
Well, as far as memory goes, I have 1tb for the Hard Disk, and 8gb of RAM, which I do plan on upgrading to 16gb, which my computer is capable of.
As for processor upgrades having to be compatible, that is my main concern, as I do not know how to find out what would be compatible.

And as for the Windows Experience Index, I'll update the top post with that, I'll just copy up the whole thing.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on November 02, 2012, 02:40:34 PM
From the WEI info you posted, you can see that you have an AMD A6-3650 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 7.2  which is a pretty decent processor.  It has built-in graphics to a fairly high standard as well. http://shop.amd.com/us/All/Detail/Processor/AD3650WNGXBOX?SearchFacets=category%3AProcessor

Here you can compare the relative performance of other AMD processors having the same socket type: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/socketType.html#id13

If you have 8GB, unless you have a reason to *now* that you are memory constrained, there is no need to upgrade your RAM (which is memory) the 1TB is the hard drive.

Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on November 02, 2012, 04:29:51 PM
I was planning on upgrading my RAM under the assumption that more RAM is always better, that and it's not too expensive to upgrade it.
As my RAM stands now, using the pre-installed gadget for the desktop that shows CPU and RAM memory use, it shows RAM being around 20-30% when idle.

As for my current processor, yes it is very nice, in fact it's one of the reasons I bought this computer, possibly best 500$ I've ever spent with it being fairly powerful for a cheaper price and able to be upgraded, but I want something that is at least 3.00 GHz to exceed the recommended for most/all of the games I play, using the link you provided that have the same socket type, it looks like I'll have to spend around 200$ to get something that is pretty current and meets my standards...

I'll have to keep looking through that list when I have a little bit more time to do so.
I do see that quite a few of them have integrated graphics on them, am I right when I think that installing a separate graphics card will overwrite the integrated one?

Also I want to say thanks for helping me out, I'm apparently the computer person of the house, when really I just know how to use Google, when it comes to stuff like this I don't have the best knowledge on what to look at. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Echo51 on November 02, 2012, 05:18:28 PM
8GB ram is enough as is, and you won't notice it in a real world scenario if you get some much faster. The graphics card is just fine, and a friends 6870 still smoke my newer 7770. A 7750 is too small if you want to game at a high-ultra-ish level graphics, even then a 7770 is scraping the bottom. You could go for a 7870, or find a 660TI from nvidia, make sure it's the Ti, or else it's the older/slower card.

The quad core CPU at 2.6ghz is a tad faster then what i currently have, and mine runs most games on high+ just fine, so you'll get a nice pc out of that update :) Just make sure your power supply has the required PCI-E graphics card connectors before buying a card.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on November 02, 2012, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: Echo51 on November 02, 2012, 05:18:28 PM
Just make sure your power supply has the required PCI-E graphics card connectors before buying a card.

Which is another thing I do not know how to check. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Echo51 on November 02, 2012, 08:00:56 PM
They typically look like this, but might also be 8 pins or 6 pins, the loose 2 pins are just for flexibility :)

(http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/pcie6plus2index.jpg)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 07, 2013, 06:33:35 PM
Reviving this thread for the same purpose instead of making a new one.
Top post updated with the new questions/information, old post is in a spoiler at the top if it's needed.
Pretty sure I made the right choice reviving and reusing this thread, it's the same topic after all.
Starting a new thread for the same thing seemed pointless to me.

Specs of my computer are in the old post spoiler, only thing changed since then is that my Processor is 4.0 GHz instead of 2.6 GHz like it was.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: teknotiss on June 07, 2013, 08:11:16 PM
that's a good card, probably go for that myself next, but why not just go for a 750W PSU?
you know you want to add more stuff/more power hungry stuff at some point so make the step now  ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 07, 2013, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: teknotiss on June 07, 2013, 08:11:16 PM
that's a good card, probably go for that myself next, but why not just go for a 750W PSU?
you know you want to add more stuff/more power hungry stuff at some point so make the step now  ;)

Find me one that is reasonably priced and I don't see a reason not to.
Right now, looking at budget, I'll (probably) be able to get the card and a power supply.

However this appears to be the only things I'm getting for a long, long time. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: teknotiss on June 08, 2013, 06:44:37 AM
what's reasonable?
this? http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297591/corsair-hx850
or... http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297615/silver-power-sp-s850m
niether of which i own, but i would consider them both, especially the second one £96 is really good value, so i'd have a bit more of a review search on those models.
hope that helps
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on June 08, 2013, 06:44:37 AM
what's reasonable?
this? http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297591/corsair-hx850
or... http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297615/silver-power-sp-s850m
niether of which i own, but i would consider them both, especially the second one £96 is really good value, so i'd have a bit more of a review search on those models.
hope that helps

Be very careful. I have a Corsair HX850 in a build I did in 2010 and the PSU is significantly longer than a "standard" ATX PSU, since I believe it is an EPS form factor. I had a devil of a time (cough, Dremel, cough) to make it fit.

@Blaze, rather than take pictures, which is pretty uninformative, look for and find the specifications for the motherboard and power supply. Manufacturer and model number, for a start. They should appear somewhere on both of those.

I bought a Radeon HD 7770 a while back and swapped it out for my Radeon HD 7950 so that I could use the older, more powerful card in a newer build. The HD 7770 is pretty awesome. I do believe that overall Nvidia makes the best price/performance cards lately.

I don't know in which country you are and where you source your components from, it may help with specific recommendations.

Newegg, for instance, has a PSU calculator on their site that may be useful for determining the correct size of PSU. I guess you can use it regardless of where you are located. http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

Also, I usually compare performance of components at the Passmark website. They have sections for CPUs and GPUs. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: teknotiss on June 08, 2013, 06:44:37 AM
what's reasonable?
this? http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297591/corsair-hx850
or... http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/psus/1297615/silver-power-sp-s850m
niether of which i own, but i would consider them both, especially the second one £96 is really good value, so i'd have a bit more of a review search on those models.
hope that helps

Reasonable would be under 50$ seeing as I'm on a tight budget.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
@Blaze, rather than take pictures, which is pretty uninformative, look for and find the specifications for the motherboard and power supply. Manufacturer and model number, for a start. They should appear somewhere on both of those.

I bought a Radeon HD 7770 a while back and swapped it out for my Radeon HD 7950 so that I could use the older, more powerful card in a newer build. The HD 7770 is pretty awesome. I do believe that overall Nvidia makes the best price/performance cards lately.

I don't know in which country you are and where you source your components from, it may help with specific recommendations.

Newegg, for instance, has a PSU calculator on their site that may be useful for determining the correct size of PSU. I guess you can use it regardless of where you are located. http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

Also, I usually compare performance of components at the Passmark website. They have sections for CPUs and GPUs. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/

Going with the 7770 as it's right in my price range, and with summer coming up, the fact that it runs cool is very important to me seeing as I can't really afford any extra cooling.
As it stands now, this card would be a huge upgrade from what I have now.
However if you know of a card that is in the same price range and runs cool while performing better, by all means let me know.

As for the Motherboard and Power Supply specs...

Motherboard model number: aahd2-hy
Power Supply model number: E143709

Motherboard doesn't have a manufacturer printed on it, and the power supply is from HP.

I am going to need a power supply with a six pin connector for the 7770.
Since my current one does not have a spare six pin connector, I am going to need a new power supply.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 03:40:42 PM
It seems the motherboard is from HP and is a micro-ATX.

Is this your motherboard?

(http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA/Doc/images/368/c02974295.jpg) (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c02966470)

The power supply is more problematical with the information you provided. At the best  I can come up with is that it is a Hipro PSU, but that is if you accidentally listed the manufacturer code, rather than the model number. I suggest You take compare yours with pictures of other power supplies to determine if you have an ATX form factor power supply or a SFF power supply (which you may have if the case is quite small). In that case you may have issues with cooling if you stick the Radeon HD 7770 in there.

Perhaps take a picture from a slightly larger distance with better light so we can see all the insides of the case? Sometimes NOT using the flash yields better results.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 05:03:07 PM
That looks very much like my motherboard, yes.

As for taking more pictures, I need to reboot my computer as it is (Mouse driver updates so the sensitivity is wonky.) , so I'll lay it down on it's side while it's off and get a camera to take good pictures.
The last ones were from my webcam using a flashlight for lighting. :D

I'll get the pictures at a later time, currently taking care of a few chores.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 05:03:07 PM
That looks very much like my motherboard, yes.


You did see that I linked the image to the specifications for the motherboard, right?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: teknotiss on June 08, 2013, 08:22:37 PM
Quote from: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
Reasonable would be under 50$ seeing as I'm on a tight budget.
new power supply.
£32.15? for a decent (nevermind good ::)) PSU? ???
good luck with that!
a new 650W will do the trick but i dunno about how long such a cheap PSU would last.
it's a very important part so it's worth investing in if you can, just make sure you get one from a reliable manufacturer. some offers on older stock can be worth searching for too
i spent £70 (about $108) about a year ago (a bit less i think) on my corsair 650W, cos i wanted an extra quiet supply so i paid a little more. i hear good stuff about seasonic, but it's something you need to be cautious with cos a cheap PSU can kill all the components in your system. read as many reviews as you can and if possible get one that is the same as a friends/workmates. that way you have a personal recommendation.
happy web searching dude  8)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 09:22:52 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 05:03:07 PM
That looks very much like my motherboard, yes.


You did see that I linked the image to the specifications for the motherboard, right?

Nope, looked at it now and it is indeed my motherboard.

As for the pictures, getting ready to reboot my computer to finish that driver update this morning and will take them then.

Quote from: teknotiss on June 08, 2013, 08:22:37 PM
Quote from: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
Reasonable would be under 50$ seeing as I'm on a tight budget.
new power supply.
£32.15? for a decent (nevermind good ::)) PSU? ???
good luck with that!
a new 650W will do the trick but i dunno about how long such a cheap PSU would last.
it's a very important part so it's worth investing in if you can, just make sure you get one from a reliable manufacturer. some offers on older stock can be worth searching for too
i spent £70 (about $108) about a year ago (a bit less i think) on my corsair 650W, cos i wanted an extra quiet supply so i paid a little more. i hear good stuff about seasonic, but it's something you need to be cautious with cos a cheap PSU can kill all the components in your system. read as many reviews as you can and if possible get one that is the same as a friends/workmates. that way you have a personal recommendation.
happy web searching dude  8)

Trying to keep things cheap since we're just now getting our feet on solid ground as far as money goes, but if it's important then so long as the total price is under 200$ then I guess there isn't much choice.
Total price being the total cost of both the card and power supply.

Looking at it as pay more now to avoid paying even more later I guess.
Last thing I want is to fry something trying to save now...

Oh jeez that was hard work to get the pictures off of the camera.
I'll spare the details though, that's not why I'm here.

First image is the over-view of the inside of my computer.
Second picture is my power supply.
Third picture is the label on my power supply, probably un-readable but I figured I'd provide it anyhow.

If you need anymore pictures, let me know what you area you need and I'll get it as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 11:28:20 PM
Blaze, here is a weekend deal from Newegg on a top-of-the line Seasonic  650W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088&nm_mc=EMC-EXPRESS060813&cm_mmc=EMC-EXPRESS060813-_-EMC-060813-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17151088-L03B).  After the Promo code it will be $80. You can't get better than that and it will be adequate for your needs.

Deal ends midnight, Pacific time in the US.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 08, 2013, 11:48:29 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 08, 2013, 11:28:20 PM
Blaze, here is a weekend deal from Newegg on a top-of-the line Seasonic  650W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088&nm_mc=EMC-EXPRESS060813&cm_mmc=EMC-EXPRESS060813-_-EMC-060813-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17151088-L03B).  After the Promo code it will be $80. You can't get better than that and it will be adequate for your needs.

Deal ends midnight, Pacific time in the US.

Wow!
That's a great deal, the reviews appear solid as well, one person said it broke after only two months, but looking at the rest it seems he got a faulty one.

Going to check it out with my dad tomorrow morning and am going to do my best to talk him into getting that tomorrow while the deal is still going.
Meanwhile I'll look around and try to find the Radeon 7770 for around 90$ new, seen a link before but didn't click it.

Thanks for this, really.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 12:32:33 AM
Also at Newegg, here is the MSI R7770-PMD1GD5 Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127687) for $80 after the rebate.

Note that it is a double-width card, so it will take up two expansion slots. Make sure you have soace for it. Read the specifications for width and length.

Also, I forgot to say. That CPU of yours is covered in dust! Get some compressed air, take it outside and blow the dust out.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 12:58:17 AM
A thought just occurred to me. Are you sure that your CPU is appropriate for that HD 7770 card? That is a fairly high-powered card and may be overdoing it for your current CPU.

Do this. Download Speccy and take a screen capture of the opening page - like this:

(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11859.0;attach=13497;image)

There are more affordable GPUs on Newegg, and you may even be able to run some of them with your current power supply,


This one for instance, I think is the same as Virgil currently has. Actually, Virgil has the 5850, which is a totally superior card and one cannot buy it anymore.

MSI R5450-MD1GD3H/LP Radeon HD 5450 1GB  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127557) And at $30, it is a steal.

But anyway, post your specs and maybe we can find a balanced card for your machine.

Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 09, 2013, 02:45:31 AM
I'd like to think I have a fairly solid setup for being an OEM, the processor was 2.6 GHz but I've since overclocked it to 4.0 GHz, now my only bottleneck is the graphics card, or lack thereof.
Meaning I struggle to run most modern games, my main concern being Company of Heroes 2 which even at rock bottom settings, leaves me at 15 fps max.

I'd love to play Planetside 2, but I can't even run that over 5 fps on all low settings...

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 12:32:33 AM
Note that it is a double-width card, so it will take up two expansion slots. Make sure you have soace for it. Read the specifications for width and length.

I know, and I've checked it out, the card should just fit in, I'm 98% sure of that.
Only 2% doubt because I'm never fully sure of anything. ::)

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 12:32:33 AM
Also, I forgot to say. That CPU of yours is covered in dust! Get some compressed air, take it outside and blow the dust out.

Yeah, I've never once cleaned it out, I suppose I should do that soon before it turns into this horror.
Warning, heavy tech-gore
(http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y2pU9iPfr_iZ_HLVq2Nz0lrGAeaxePBY5cy7MOkfa2GUrMlZkoh_AScCH_kHDr_1VIfH_LAia0Y_Eezj0atWMGQdCXxmnZCoCQx1R0Qw_mFlyw/dust%20pc1.JPG?rdrts=45384577)
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Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 04:55:32 AM
OK, now that you *finally* gave us more specs, it seems you can save more money.  :)

If I put your system specs into the PSU calculator I linked you to, then you need 300W, so a 350W PSU is reasonable.

Here is a 350W Seasonic for  $40 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077). 

And look at the 50C motherboard temp - that's because it's dirty and can't get cooled. :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 05:10:47 AM
Actually Blaze, I just looked at that case again - it has one! 80mm fan. That's incredible. You will have serious heat problems.

Does it have a fan on the side panel you removed? Can you mount more/larger fans? I'm really surprised that you can overclock with that small CPU cooler you have.

Here is a list of micro-ATX mid-towers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007583%20600006305&IsNodeId=1&name=MicroATX%20Mid%20Tower). The first 3 on the list are all under $30 and have reasonably good reviews.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 09, 2013, 01:11:34 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 04:55:32 AM
OK, now that you *finally* gave us more specs, it seems you can save more money.  :)

If I put your system specs into the PSU calculator I linked you to, then you need 300W, so a 350W PSU is reasonable.

Here is a 350W Seasonic for  $40 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077). 

I have a 300W PSU right now, but it can't hurt to go a little higher, better than having too little, right? :D

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 05:10:47 AM
Actually Blaze, I just looked at that case again - it has one! 80mm fan. That's incredible. You will have serious heat problems.

Does it have a fan on the side panel you removed? Can you mount more/larger fans?

When I took that was shortly after I got done playing a game, however it's idling at 41C right now.
There isn't any place I can see to mount a fan on the panel I removed, either...

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 05:10:47 AM
Here is a list of micro-ATX mid-towers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007583%20600006305&IsNodeId=1&name=MicroATX%20Mid%20Tower). The first 3 on the list are all under $30 and have reasonably good reviews.

Great, here I thought it was going to be fairly easy, just putting a graphics card and new power supply in, turns out I might need a new case!
Going to have to take everything out and put it back into the new case, and I have no prior knowledge of taking computers apart, let alone putting them together. :-\

Would I really have to get a new tower? I can't just get a bigger fan?
I've got a big Box Fan here, I can open the case and point the box fan right at my tower! ::)

Seriously though, would a larger fan help?
I'd rather not go through the trouble of getting a new case.
Then again the easy path is not always the best path, I'm just worried I'd break something while taking it out/putting it in.

Luckily there are several busted up computer towers downstairs, I could possibly cannibalize if they have better fans, or them or take them apart for practice. :D
I can get you pictures of those computers if you so wish, there are two to four of them down there.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
I showed you a few purchasing options and pointed out things I'd be concerned about if I was building/upgrading. Whether those isues are real, I cannot for sure say.

Toms's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/) is probably a good place to go and ask questions.

You may want to think longer term. If you buy the 650W Seasonic, it will be good for any build up to the latest Haswell processors with a much larger video card. So will your Radeon HD 7770. On that basis, as long as you don't heat stress those components you can plan on moving to a larger case/board sometime in the future so you can put more memory on it. Or a bigger/stronger processor.

You may want to consider the implications of overclocking using that small CPU fan in your picture.

The case certainly is not thermally advantaged - maybe you can even move your components to one of the other cases you mention - look if one of them will support your board form factor. Your case looks to be fairly old, nobody makes cases with such poor ventilation anymore.

It may be that you can invert the Seasonic power supply and use its'  intake fan to add ventilation to your case - since the 650W will always run under low load, it won't contribute significantly to the heat profile, so that may help. Actually, thinking about your case, unless there are vent holes at the top for the power supply, I guess it does by design take air from the case and vent it out the back. So that will add a little additional ventilation to your case.

Upgrading computers is a complex thing and many factors should be considered.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 09, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
I showed you a few purchasing options and pointed out things I'd be concerned about if I was building/upgrading. Whether those isues are real, I cannot for sure say.

Even if they're not real issues, it's not a risk I think I'd want to take.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
Toms's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/) is probably a good place to go and ask questions.

I'll head over and take a look, make an account and then a thread in the proper area.
I want to get as much knowledge about everything before making any moves.
I am probably going for that 650W PSU that is on sale, that way I won't have to worry about a PSU for quite awhile.
Since the sale ends tonight, that means I'll have to get that now, however I'm not going to do anything with it until I'm certain on my next step.

Next step being what kind of case I'm getting, something easy for a newcomer to install stuff into while still being highly ventilated...

Actually, since I need a new case, I'm going to head for the cheaper 350W PSU to cut down on the cost of this.
Around 40$ for the PSU, and around 40$ for the case, leaving the total just under 200$ which is my budget.


Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
You may want to think longer term. If you buy the 650W Seasonic, it will be good for any build up to the latest Haswell processors with a much larger video card. So will your Radeon HD 7770. On that basis, as long as you don't heat stress those components you can plan on moving to a larger case/board sometime in the future so you can put more memory on it. Or a bigger/stronger processor.

I believe I have a solid base computer, meaning all I need to do is upgrade it as needed, which I plan on doing.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
You may want to consider the implications of overclocking using that small CPU fan in your picture.

It's been overclocked for several months now and I haven't had one issue, so I doubt I'd have any issues.
I am, however, worried about summer. Seeing as the summers here can be in the high 90s worries me about running too hot.
So if it's a new case I need, it's a new case I'll get.
Seeing as I wouldn't be able to get a new computer should this one cease working, I'm very cautious about these issues.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
The case certainly is not thermally advantaged - maybe you can even move your components to one of the other cases you mention - look if one of them will support your board form factor. Your case looks to be fairly old, nobody makes cases with such poor ventilation anymore.

The other cases are much older, meaning I won't have any luck there either.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
It may be that you can invert the Seasonic power supply and use its'  intake fan to add ventilation to your case - since the 650W will always run under low load, it won't contribute significantly to the heat profile, so that may help. Actually, thinking about your case, unless there are vent holes at the top for the power supply, I guess it does by design take air from the case and vent it out the back. So that will add a little additional ventilation to your case.

There are vent holes at the top for the power supply on my current case.

Quote from: Grauniad on June 09, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
Upgrading computers is a complex thing and many factors should be considered.  Good luck.

One of the reasons I'm not going into this blindly.
You've been a great help too, thanks again. :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 10, 2013, 02:08:12 PM
Blaze. Today Newegg has Seasonic 750W at even lower price. Can't link from mobile but its easy to find as Shellshocker deal
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 10, 2013, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 10, 2013, 02:08:12 PM
Blaze. Today Newegg has Seasonic 750W at even lower price. Can't link from mobile but its easy to find as Shellshocker deal

Found and bookmarked, not sure if we can buy it in time, but I hope so.
If I manage to snag this, I'll be set for a PSU for a good while.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 11, 2013, 01:52:34 AM
MSI Radeon HD 7770 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127687) Is now sold out.
I've looked for a bit and I cannot find another that cheap.

Just my luck...
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 11, 2013, 02:47:48 AM
Blaze, I have just finished building a new computer. Here's how I did it.  In January and February I did some research on what I wanted. I decided, for instance, not to wait for the Intel Haswell line of processors, and that I preferred the Intel i5-3750K over the 7-3770K, since the i5 is a better gaming processor and overclocks just as well as the i7 (it does not have hyperthreading, but that does not really justify the price difference).  I also considered the older Extreme processors, but for various reasons decided not to get them.

Between March and Memorial day at the end of May, I then started looking for components. I looked at Newegg mostly, because in general they offer the best deals, but I kept an eye on ncix (http://us.ncix.com/) and tigerdirect (http://www.tigerdirect.com/) as well. Some stuff also sell on ebay, and if it is new, the risk is not too great provided the seller has a good reputation.

I had a list of components and a list of "regular" prices. On some occasions, these sites offer special deals. When the price for a component dropped or there was a special combo offer, I took it. On special days like Memorial day, and again on the 4th of July, thee sites offer even greater and more aggressive discounts.

I got a good deal on the same MSI HD 7770 back in April, as well as the 650W Seasonic.  I got my case in March, hard drives in April for $84 (on Memorial day there was a better deal for $65, but I already bought). Sometimes I also got rebates, some of which are still being processed.  Finally I bought a motherboard, CPU and memory during the memorial day sale. The motherboard had a discount and also came with 1 8GB memory module free - so I bought 3 more matching modules and effectively got the memory for 75% off.  The processor was discounted by $30. the DVD burner was on special for $14. Ultimately, I build a top-end good, quiet, water-cooled gaming computer for <$1,000 before factoring in the rebates.

Moral of the story, plan your build, get your money lined up and then wait and the prices will come by again. If you can get a case and power supply now, you can start moving your components into the new case and be in good shape to stick the graphics card in when it becomes available. If I were you I'd check Newegg's specials on a daily basis and hold out for the 4th of July sales as a last resort.

Edit: Just checked and NCIX has the FXF HD 7770 (http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=68528&vpn=FX777AZNF4&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1288) for $90 after discounts and rebates.  Since the price is over a $100 you will also get free shipping, which saves a few $.  FXF is a very reputable graphics card manufacturer.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 11, 2013, 11:31:04 AM
Thanks for that advice, this is my first time buying parts for an upgrade so it's very helpful.
As well as thank you for that link, my main worry was finding a card in that price range from a good manufacturer.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 12, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
If you are still looking, here is a $50 (after rebate) power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-17-139-028-_-Product
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 12, 2013, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 12, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
If you are still looking, here is a $50 (after rebate) power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-17-139-028-_-Product

Because of the need for a new tower to avoid the risk of heat issues, I've went for this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817494002) power supply, since it's much cheaper and does what I need.
Thank you anyways, pretty much settled on everything, just waiting for when we can afford it. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 12, 2013, 06:28:44 PM
Good job. Lepa has a reasonable reputation, I remember looking into them back in 2010 when I was building a rig.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 12, 2013, 07:16:41 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 12, 2013, 06:28:44 PM
Good job. Lepa has a reasonable reputation, I remember looking into them back in 2010 when I was building a rig.

All of the reviews say really good things too, the only "cons" they put are minor things that won't be an issue for me.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 08:14:17 AM
I know you have already bought, but this is what I mean when I say patience pays off when assembling components for a PC.

The 430W Corsair PSU is now on sale for $20 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-17-139-026-_-Product) after rebate since a newer model is on the market.

Any buying spree should be over a few months and should include one of the American (marketing) holidays such as Memorial day, 4th of July,  Fathers' Day, Labor day, and of course, the biggest is Thanksgiving. Deals are usually incredible around then and it's easy to save $100 or more on building your dream PC.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 15, 2013, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 08:14:17 AM
I know you have already bought, but this is what I mean when I say patience pays off when assembling components for a PC.

The 430W Corsair PSU is now on sale for $20 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-17-139-026-_-Product) after rebate since a newer model is on the market.

Any buying spree should be over a few months and should include one of the American (marketing) holidays such as Memorial day, 4th of July,  Fathers' Day, Labor day, and of course, the biggest is Thanksgiving. Deals are usually incredible around then and it's easy to save $100 or more on building your dream PC.

The 4th of july is coming up, despite wanting it all now, I suppose it would be best if I waited until then to buy, huh?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
I would set a cut-off date right after a holiday. SO ye, either this weekend or 4th of July. Depending on how patient you are.  Sometimes deals comes, sometimes they go. It's a tricky thing to decide.  I have not seen many deals on the Radeon HD 7770 lately, so I don't now on that one.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 15, 2013, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
I would set a cut-off date right after a holiday. SO ye, either this weekend or 4th of July. Depending on how patient you are.  Sometimes deals comes, sometimes they go. It's a tricky thing to decide.  I have not seen many deals on the Radeon HD 7770 lately, so I don't now on that one.

On one hand, saving money is always a good thing.
On the other hand, I recently got a game that I can't even run properly.

It's one I've been waiting on for awhile now too, I can run it but only at 8-15 fps and it's odd.
Like it alternates between slow and fast and gives off this choppy feel.

I'll probably hold until the fourth, though.
I've got other games to play while I wait.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
Are you holding out for the video card? I assume you bought the case and power supply? I think if you can get it for your target price you should buy it. From everything I've seen, the HD 7770  prices are increasing.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 15, 2013, 06:02:42 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 15, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
Are you holding out for the video card? I assume you bought the case and power supply? I think if you can get it for your target price you should buy it. From everything I've seen, the HD 7770  prices are increasing.

Haven't yet bought anything, my dad wants me to have stuff to open on my birthday. :-\

Told him if it's that important he can buy me a candy bar to open.
He then walked inside and came back out with one, tossed it into me lap, then said I'm halfway there. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: CobraKill on June 16, 2013, 04:43:21 PM
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. I'm looking to purchase an SSD for my laptop. It's hard because there's just so much to take into account.

My first thing up is size. Do you think 120Gb is enough? I have a 150Gb drive now and have 77Gb of free Space, so I think 120 is enough.

Second Issue is copying. I want to copy my entire HDD to the SDD and make it the main drive in my laptop. Do I need the SSD to be the same size as the HDD?

Finally, I'm looking for something to max out SATA II. So having Read and Write greater than 300 Mbs/s would be ideal. Would IOPS be limited by SATA II though?

I'm trying to stay as cheap as I can and I definitely need to be under $200.

EDIT: I'm looking at this one: http://www.microcenter.com/product/390989/HyperX_3K_SH103S3-120G_120GB_SATA_6Gb-s_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_with_SandForce_SF-2281_Controller (http://www.microcenter.com/product/390989/HyperX_3K_SH103S3-120G_120GB_SATA_6Gb-s_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_with_SandForce_SF-2281_Controller)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: asmussen on June 16, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
You do not need to get an SSD of the exact same size as your current hard drive. There are methods of copying that don't involve a straight one for one byte copy from the old device to the new device. One of the easiest ways to do the transfer is to use a kit like this one:

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CTLAPINSTALLAC

That's the kit I used when I converted my gaming rig from a regular hard drive to an ssd, although there may be others. It comes with an adapter that you use on the ssd drive (Only works for ssd's, since usb wouldn't provide enough power to power the drive motor on a regular hard drive), converting it temporarily into a usb attached disk. Then, you run the software on the CD that comes with the kit, and it automatically copies all of the data off of your hard drive onto the ssd, and it handles details like the drives being of different sizes automatically. The only catch is that your ssd has to be larger than the amount of USED disk space on the hard drive you are copying from. This of course, is only a potential issue when copying to an ssd that is smaller than your hard drive. If you're going bigger, it's not something you have to take into account. Once it finishes its work, you just shut down the computer, remove the hard drive, replace it with the ssd, and when you turn it back on it'll boot the same OS that was on the hard drive, just as if it had always been installed on the ssd. Worked like a charm for me, with no hiccups.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: mpete on June 16, 2013, 07:48:29 PM
If you want even more stuff to consider, i think form factor needs to be the same for changeing parts inside a laptop. not sure about the rest so thats all I have to say.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: asmussen on June 16, 2013, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: mpete on June 16, 2013, 07:48:29 PM
If you want even more stuff to consider, i think form factor needs to be the same for changeing parts inside a laptop. not sure about the rest so thats all I have to say.

This is true, but virtually all current SSDs and laptop hard drives are in the 2.5" form factor, so although it's something to keep in mind, it's also not likely to be much of an issue, so long as the laptop uses a SATA interface for its hard drive.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 21, 2013, 11:19:41 AM
@Blaze: Here's a HD 7770 for $85 after $20 rebate.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121633&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-14-121-633-_-Product

Daily deal. Today, or you'll have to wait for the next one to roll around. Asus is one of the best brands around.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 21, 2013, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 21, 2013, 11:19:41 AM
@Blaze: Here's a HD 7770 for $85 after $20 rebate.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121633&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-14-121-633-_-Product

Daily deal. Today, or you'll have to wait for the next one to roll around. Asus is one of the best brands around.

That's the 7750. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 21, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
Ah - my bad. Sorry.

I've noticed that the 7770 seems to be a very popular card. That makes discounts and special deals a bit more scarce. It outperforms the 7750 by a lot.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 21, 2013, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 21, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
Ah - my bad. Sorry.

I've noticed that the 7770 seems to be a very popular card. That makes discounts and special deals a bit more scarce. It outperforms the 7750 by a lot.

I understand why, it's not too expensive and is quite powerful for the price.

Hoping I can score a good deal on the fourth of July.
My dad would actually buy everything now, I'm the reason I don't have it yet, trying to save him money. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 25, 2013, 03:24:59 PM
Blaze: Go for it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131477  

$80 after the rebate.  Power Color is a reasonable brand. Not top tier, but not shoddy.

And more: If you are new to Newegg, then here is a $10 off coupon for a first order over $50. :)

http://www.priceblink.com/webcpns/couponslist.php?r=1&c=8225&s=U&utm_source=tb&uid=8203e11e-cd18-ad83-d2ff-9f16c2f3fcfc&ver=3.6.2
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 25, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 25, 2013, 03:24:59 PM
Blaze: Go for it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131477  

$80 after the rebate.  Power Color is a reasonable brand. Not top tier, but not shoddy.

And more: If you are new to Newegg, then here is a $10 off coupon for a first order over $50. :)

http://www.priceblink.com/webcpns/couponslist.php?r=1&c=8225&s=U&utm_source=tb&uid=8203e11e-cd18-ad83-d2ff-9f16c2f3fcfc&ver=3.6.2

Thank you!
I've got everything pulled up and will let my dad know once he is home from work.
Working a double shift tonight, so it'll be late.

Total of $199.07 before the rebates, right under my target cost. ;D

Ooh, we lost power, good thing I have my backup battery.
Dang storm...

Update: Just got everything ordered, starting tomorrow I'm going to practice dismantling those old computers while I wait for everything to arrive.
I won't even touch mine until I can take it all apart and put it back together without issue, I can't afford to screw this up...
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 26, 2013, 10:50:09 PM
Making this a new post because I need to attach files and it'll bump the thread back up which would be more noticable.
Got in practice dismantling and reassembling a computer, took a few pictures because why not. :D

First picture is everything taken out.

Second picture is the empty case, minus the disk drive, couldn't get it out, unimportant seeing as I've replaced it before.

Third is it reassembled.

Tomorrow I work on a computer I've never seen the inside of, should I take more pictures? :D

Edit: Decided I should give a bit of background on this computer.
It's so old it had a whopping 512 MB of DDR Ram through two 256 MB sticks.

And I was stuck with that thing for two years, and it barely ran YouTube.
I have no idea how I lived, but I supposed Creeper World helped since it could run that most times. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 02:51:41 PM
Blaze, it it still boots, try downloading a Live CD of Linux Mint and see if you can boot Linux on it. :)

Oh, and as for pictures, get an account at an image hosting site(IMGUR, Flicker, TinyPic, ...) and upload higher-res pictures to there. I can barely make out the details of your stuff.

One more, don't update, posts, it never shows up on the Unread list.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 27, 2013, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 02:51:41 PM
Blaze, it it still boots, try downloading a Live CD of Linux Mint and see if you can boot Linux on it. :)

Oh, and as for pictures, get an account at an image hosting site(IMGUR, Flicker, TinyPic, ...) and upload higher-res pictures to there. I can barely make out the details of your stuff.

One more, don't update, posts, it never shows up on the Unread list.

Dang, I figured it does show up on the unread.
That's what I get for assuming...

And those should be the high res, just click on them and zoom, works for me at least.
If not then I'll re-up them to my Imgur account and embed the images.

The camera I use isn't the best, but it's the best we have.

Going to work on a second computer I've never seen the inside of in a few hours here.
After a bit, going to try and swap the internal parts into a different case, first I need more practice.

And saying that computer still works, which it should unless I broke something, I can try that.
However may I ask why I would do that? What's the advantage?
It's crazy slow. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 04:11:07 PM
it's a cheap and cheerful way to validate your work. It can be used as a firewall, a file server or something else linuxy...
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 27, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 04:11:07 PM
it's a cheap and cheerful way to validate your work. It can be used as a firewall, a file server or something else linuxy...

File server, huh?
I'll have to dig back up that guide I found on how to do that...

And it has XP on it, just need to hook it up and boot it to find out if it works.
Of course, if I put it into service I'll have to wipe the drive.
I used it for awhile, then my mother used it, and she seems to break every computer she touches, or loads all kinds of viruses onto it.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 04:21:42 PM
so use it to learn how to clean infected computers... :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: asmussen on June 27, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Also Linux can run on a much slimmer system than Windows, generally, and it's a good platform to tinker around with if you're interested in learning.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 27, 2013, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 27, 2013, 04:21:42 PM
so use it to learn how to clean infected computers... :)

I'll just wipe the drive. :D
The drive in question is only 80 gigs anyhow.

Looking at my current computer with 397 GB used, it makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 27, 2013, 10:32:22 PM
Just got done taking this one apart, took a picture before I got to work, and a couple after I got to it.

Gotta put it back together, but figured I'd post the pictures first.
My back needs a break anyhow. :D

Pictures


Those stats.
(http://i.imgur.com/sBtbtqG.jpg)

Inside before taking it apart.
(http://i.imgur.com/wpzbUeb.jpg)

After taking it apart.
(http://i.imgur.com/YjQYT2o.jpg)

Inside the now empty case.
(http://i.imgur.com/y9FBT62.jpg)
[close]

There is no background on this one, we never used it.
It was one taken from my dad's work when they were going to throw it out.
I think...
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: MizInIA on June 28, 2013, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: Cavemaniac on June 27, 2013, 10:14:50 PM

My very first hard disc was 50mb!

My first computer ran everything off of a 5 1/4 floppy disk including DOS.

My next one was like yours and  the monitor was awesome it had colors. Then the 3.5 disks came out and we thought Wow! look how much we can put on a disk, and we don't have to turn it over to read the other side.  :)  Hard to believe that was less than 30 years ago. Now there are high capacity Blu-ray (BDXL) disks that will hold 128GB. Just imagine where we will be in another 30 years.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 28, 2013, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on June 28, 2013, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: Cavemaniac on June 27, 2013, 10:14:50 PM

My very first hard disc was 50mb!

My first computer ran everything off of a 5 1/4 floppy disk including DOS.

My next one was like yours and  the monitor was awesome it had colors. Then the 3.5 disks came out and we thought Wow! look how much we can put on a disk, and we don't have to turn it over to read the other side.  :)  Hard to believe that was less than 30 years ago. Now there are high capacity Blu-ray (BDXL) disks that will hold 128GB. Just imagine where we will be in another 30 years.

I'm trying to imagine what the games will look like in 30 years, Battlefield 4 already has destructible skyscrapers!
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: MizInIA on June 28, 2013, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Blaze on June 28, 2013, 01:52:35 PM

I'm trying to imagine what the games will look like in 30 years, Battlefield 4 already has destructible skyscrapers!

I imagine the in game experience will look real. we are currently stuck with the "cartoony" feel but movies can computer animate very realistic content with the help of banks of servers. that should all be available in a desktop/console format in 30 years if not in our phones :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on June 28, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
/me mutters something about being on-topic and stalks off
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on June 28, 2013, 05:38:12 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on June 28, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
/me mutters something about being on-topic and stalks off

Are we really that off-topic?
For future games, we'll need quite a computer to run them, so we're not that off-topic now are we? ::)

Back on-topic now.

I got a package!

An extra fan to further assist cooling and the 500W PSU.
(http://i.imgur.com/cOK5rjO.jpg)

Close up on the connectors for the PSU, no unboxing until I get everything.
(http://i.imgur.com/K1Vwctw.jpg)
[close]

I've gotta get to work and start swapping internal components of these old desktop towers quickly...
But first, ice-cream trip! ;D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 03:04:05 PM
The Radeon HD 7770 has arrived, and looking at the tracking on the case, it should be here today. ;D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 04:21:55 PM
Post unbox and build pictures. Or are you waiting for ypur birthday?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 04:21:55 PM
Post unbox and build pictures. Or are you waiting for ypur birthday?

Not unboxing anything yet, waiting for everything to arrive.
I planned on taking pictures of everything when I do it.

Very tempted to install the card now, however.
Worried about heat issues though so I'm resisting...
Even more so since I plan on doing a bit of a stress test to see what it's capable of.

The case should be here either today or tomorrow, so I won't have to wait very long.
Looking at the tracking number, it's estimated arrival is today and it was sent out for delivery today as well.
However, depending on when it arrives, building might have to be postponed until the following day.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 05:01:02 PM
The Case is here, pictures will arrive shortly!
Starting with unboxing. ;D

Edit: I'd have pictures by now, but the camera is in my dad's room and I don't currently have access to his room.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Everything is switched over to the new case, and appears to be in working order.
Except for one tiny issue.

It doesn't seem to be booting up fully, or just isn't registering the display is plugged in, as it has no feed.
The new graphics card is not hooked up yet, so it isn't that, I've went over everything multiple times and cannot find the issue.

I'm hoping maybe somebody has an idea on what might cause this issue. :-\
Posting off of my dad's laptop, for those curious.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:27:09 PM
Any beeps?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 10:37:39 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:27:09 PM
Any beeps?

No, but I took another look and checked alllllll the connections, I missed one for the CPU
However, my PSU didn't have a simple 2x2 plug, only a 4x2.

So halfway through unplugging everything, I take a look to see if I could split the 4x2 plug.
Ineed I could, it simply snaps together or apart, thus I plugged it in and it's booting up as I type this.

Success! ;D

I'll upload pictures once I install the graphics card.
Saying I can find a digital copy of the disc for the drivers to install it.
The cord for the disc driver to send info to the motherboard is too short.
It was long enough in the old case, but with where the motherboard is set compared to where the disc drive is, it's now too short.

That and this case is much, much bigger.
And the airflow in it is superb because of that, it's no longer all cramped in there.

So hard to type on this tiny laptop keyboard...

But first, I need to eat and rest my back as it's killing me. ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:42:08 PM
Awesome. Good luck.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 02, 2013, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:42:08 PM
Awesome. Good luck.

I need it, my computer now has a one bar connection to the net when it was 4-5 bar.
Can a simple case change screw that up..?

Can't even load forums to post from it, have to use dad's laptop again.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:52:59 PM
What do you use as the computer's Internet connection? Wireless or Ethernet? Is it a card? where is it installed.

If you need help you need to give us details to work with.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:55:20 PM
Blaze. I'm in chat if you want to discuss more... Not sure for long, it's nearly time for TV.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: asmussen on July 02, 2013, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 02, 2013, 10:52:59 PM
What do you use as the computer's Internet connection? Wireless or Ethernet? Is it a card? where is it installed.

If you need help you need to give us details to work with.


I assume that if he's talking about how many bars he has, it has to be a wireless connection.

Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
Posting this from my computer to let you know I've fix the connection issue and taped the end of the metal plate that is the tip of the antenna to the top of my desktop.
It's soldered onto this metal plate that has room for a screw, and I couldn't find a place to screw it in. ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 01:24:58 PM
Well, this case is definitely well ventilated.
I booted it up when I woke up, went downstairs to take a shower and eat, come back in my room and all I smell is computer. :D

I'm going to be installing the 7770 later on, I'll post all the pictures once that's taken care of.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 01:24:58 PM
... all I smell is computer. :D


As opposed to? Smelly feet?

How does a computer smell?

Seriously, is there a smell in the room? Then something is perhaps too hot. Use Speccy, speedfan and CPU-Z to check fan speeds and temperatures.

When you have the Video card in, add GPU-Z. :)

And I'll be sending you a bill for the dent in my forehead...  :P
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 02:08:01 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 01:24:58 PM
... all I smell is computer. :D


As opposed to? Smelly feet?

How does a computer smell?

Seriously, is there a smell in the room? Then something is perhaps too hot. Use Speccy, speedfan and CPU-Z to check fan speeds and temperatures.

When you have the Video card in, add GPU-Z. :)

And I'll be sending you a bill for the dent in my forehead...  :P

My room normally smells a tad dusty, but in a nice way.
And computer smells like, electronic... It's very hard to explain. :D
I also don't believe the smell is bad, it's just noticeable and easy to ignore.

As for that dent in your forehead, that's my gift for you to remember me by. ::)

Put a Speccy shot up anyhow.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 02:34:11 PM
That 15°C on the CPU is impossible. Unless you live in a refrigerator and even then I'm doubtful.

On a related note. You mention that the connectors for the optical drive is too short. Can you post some pictures? what does the optical drive use? old IDE or newer SATA? In either instance you should be able to get longer cables. post picture of cables if possible. most preferable showing them in place in the computer.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 02:35:40 PM
Something is whacked. Look back at your previous speccy shot. the CPU temp was in line with other components.

**VERY CAREFULLY** Touch the heatsink on the CPU. Mot the fan, not any component other than the heatsink. Make sure your other hand is on the case somewhere metallic to ground you. To be safer. power the CPU down by pressing the power button until the machine shuts down, then very quickly test the temperature of the heatsink.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 03:05:58 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 02:35:40 PM
Something is whacked. Look back at your previous speccy shot. the CPU temp was in line with other components.

**VERY CAREFULLY** Touch the heatsink on the CPU. Mot the fan, not any component other than the heatsink. Make sure your other hand is on the case somewhere metallic to ground you. To be safer. power the CPU down by pressing the power button until the machine shuts down, then very quickly test the temperature of the heatsink.

I was just in there installing the 7770, I grazed the heatsink while taking a cable out and the computer had been off for about three minutes.
It wasn't hot at all.

Quote from: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 02:34:11 PM
That 15°C on the CPU is impossible. Unless you live in a refrigerator and even then I'm doubtful.

I have AC on in my room, and it's quite cool in here, along with I'm not doing anything CPU intensive, couldn't that allow it to drop low?
That was taken while my computer was idle.

Quote from: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 02:34:11 PM
On a related note. You mention that the connectors for the optical drive is too short. Can you post some pictures? what does the optical drive use? old IDE or newer SATA? In either instance you should be able to get longer cables. post picture of cables if possible. most preferable showing them in place in the computer.

It uses newer SATA, my dad will be taking me out this weekend to buy a longer cable along with a better internet card.

As for pictures they'll be up shortly, just making sure I have the drivers for my card.
I used the AMD auto-detect program and it says I do, when I booted my computer it launched in 800x600 and installed stuff then needed to be rebooted.
I rebooted it and it launched back in 1920x1080 and then I went online to look for the drivers to get to that conclusion.

I'm guessing my computer installed the drivers from the internet during that first bootup?

I just took another Speccy shot for you, when loading it was up at 30C and went down to idle at 16-18C fairly quickly, about one every second or so.
I could do a stress test and take temp readings then?

Bear in mind I've overclocked it to 4.0 GHz without raising the voltage, and allow it to idle at ~700 MHz when it's not in use.
It's base clock is 2.6 GHz before I got to it, and it idled at 1.5 GHz too.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 03:26:38 PM
Pictures~

Pictures!

Graphics card and the Tower still in the box.
(http://i.imgur.com/pUtUbjG.jpg)

Front of the tower.
(http://i.imgur.com/sZiGkml.jpg)

Power Supply in the box.
(http://i.imgur.com/znGCfNK.jpg)

Making sure the Graphics Card fit before I did anything else.
(http://i.imgur.com/7NPChE3.jpg)

Case as it stands now. (With backup battery. ;D)
(http://i.imgur.com/IUwgMDp.jpg)

Sata Cable for the Disc Drive using my arm for measuring because I was too lazy to get up and use the measuring tape I have.
(http://i.imgur.com/3apzYvb.jpg)
[close]

I honestly thought I took more pictures of the process, I guess I just got carried away...
The Sata cable is about two inches short from the disc drive, and still too short if I put it in the bottom drive bay.

The mess of cords behind my desktop is all bundled down and does not restrict airflow from behind the case, for those curious. ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 04:21:57 PM
Playing a YouTube video brought my CPU temp up to 25C.

Going to play a few games shortly and see how things fair then.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
All I can say is that the CPU has to be hotter than room temperature. Now it may be that you have a sub-60F room....
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 07:03:02 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 03, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
All I can say is that the CPU has to be hotter than room temperature. Now it may be that you have a sub-60F room....

It's not under 60F in my room.
I don't know what's up with the processor.
However the video card I am concerned with.

I don't seem to be getting full power from it, or an update screwed this game up.
I'll have to try a different game, but need to help make dinner.

So much to do so little time. :-\
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 03, 2013, 07:39:18 PM
Drivers are up to date, other game I wanted to try locks my computer up on a black screen, have to shut down holding power button.
Going to get that cable for disc drive and install the software from the disc, and if that doesn't work then I don't know anymore.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 04, 2013, 01:07:00 AM
Ahh, the feeling of fixing something and having no clue how you fixed it.

(http://i.imgur.com/PURIbwi.jpg)

Do I win? ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 04, 2013, 01:42:28 AM
Did a test run and it went perfectly.

Here are the temps while it's all under load using Speccy and GPU-Z for the temps.

Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 06, 2013, 09:46:38 AM
So is it more awesome than you hoped for?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 06, 2013, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 06, 2013, 09:46:38 AM
So is it more awesome than you hoped for?

Yes!
Some games like open world ones still cause my fps to drop, but it's more than playable. ;D

Thank you for all the help you provided me.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Michionlion on July 06, 2013, 08:34:15 PM
So, I'm curious.  I have about $1000 to blow on the best computer I can make...  but how much was your build Blaze?
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 06, 2013, 10:52:30 PM
Build the Best PC for your Buck (http://dl.maximumpc.com/Archives/MPC%202012%2012-web.pdf). The article has been archived and you have to read through the whole PDF to find it.

You can find similar articles at Tom's Hardware and Anandtech.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 06, 2013, 11:58:13 PM
Quote from: Michionlion on July 06, 2013, 08:34:15 PM
So, I'm curious.  I have about $1000 to blow on the best computer I can make...  but how much was your build Blaze?

Started at $500, these upgrades cost an extra $200 leaving it at a little over $700 as I still have a few things to take care of.
If I had the choice, I'd build from scratch, but I had no computer and needed one pre-built just to have something to use.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 09:46:42 AM
Also a very good starting point are the Newegg DIY combos.

http://www.newegg.com/DIY-PC-Combos/PromotionStore/ID-33

Stay with Intel, they outperform AMD in every aspect.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 07, 2013, 12:33:29 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 09:46:42 AM
Also a very good starting point are the Newegg DIY combos.

http://www.newegg.com/DIY-PC-Combos/PromotionStore/ID-33

Stay with Intel, they outperform AMD in every aspect.

You say as my computer is all AMD. ::)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Well, if you want cheap, you can't beat AMD. Also, your computer (CPU) was a done deal by the time I got involved. :)

For $1,000, you can build a nifty gaming PC and I won't be recommending AMD for that.

I think my PC (without monitor) came in at well under that amount. But that involved swapping the super gaming card I had in an older PC for the HD 7770 and using the better HD7950 in mine. No-one here noticed the difference. :)
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 07, 2013, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Well, if you want cheap, you can't beat AMD. Also, your computer (CPU) was a done deal by the time I got involved. :)

For $1,000, you can build a nifty gaming PC and I won't be recommending AMD for that.

I think my PC (without monitor) came in at well under that amount. But that involved swapping the super gaming card I had in an older PC for the HD 7770 and using the better HD7950 in mine. No-one here noticed the difference. :)

Yeah, it was a done deal.
However it's working for my needs, OC'd to 4.0 GHz I shouldn't be needing any upgrades for awhile now.
I could push it farther by upping the voltage, found a program that can work around the OEM voltage lock, but I don't want to risk it. :D
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
The very best (ever) OC CPUs are the Sandy Bridge K-series. Later Intel models has paste and not solder for the TIM between the chip and the case. Some OC fanatics delid the Ivy-bridge CPUs to get better heat conductivity.
Title: Re: Upgrading Computer
Post by: Blaze on July 07, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
Quote from: Grauniad on July 07, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
The very best (ever) OC CPUs are the Sandy Bridge K-series. Later Intel models has paste and not solder for the TIM between the chip and the case. Some OC fanatics delid the Ivy-bridge CPUs to get better heat conductivity.

I didn't know the type of CPU had an effect on OC'ing...
I'm fairly sure there is a whole lot more that I don't know about computers. :D