Ok I know it's a little early to set one up as there's simply no editor yet, but I wanted to plant the idea in everyone's head.
I want to have a boss creation tournament after the editor comes out. As in not who can create the best map, but who can create the best boss-like entity. I want to see enemies far worse than the Nexus trying to destroy your precious liberation ship, and I want to see these creatures destroyed.
What are everyone's thoughts on this idea.
As now you can't change the nexus or the emitter design, so the boss must be nexus/emitter/drone/phantom glop with different settings.. ?
You might see the option to alter the design of theese later...
Never said it couldn't be made of premade stuff, but I've heard of multiple boss ideas and ebon says he's got a bunch. So I want to see what people can come up with.
Of course, emitter + stone can be a boss if you want..
I think people are going to come up with some really insane ideas.
Quote from: MadMag on June 01, 2011, 02:33:17 PM
As now you can't change the nexus or the emitter design, so the boss must be nexus/emitter/drone/phantom glop with different settings.. ?
You might see the option to alter the design of theese later...
Fields is the word!
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 01, 2011, 04:19:44 PM
Fields is the word!
Its all going to come down to who can be the most creative as well as the most diabolical with using the fields. Whether you want your boss to have creeper claws are creeper guns. It is just going to come down to setting up the fields in certain ways that look threatening as well as being hard to fight back. ;)
The movement of fields as well as the timing of them is what will win this contest.
This is gonna be good.
I'll try creating a new beateble nexus once the map editor is out.
oh this will be fun. ;D
Quote from: djcian on June 02, 2011, 04:40:12 AM
oh this will be fun. ;D
I'm not so sure about that, I didn't like those end boss maps in CW1: Get Thor and win or build an amazing force of blasters slog away and win.
CW2 of course offers a lot more possibilities, but since the Nexus destroys almost all stuff when ready, and to make it even somewhat beatable you must contain it in Level 4 fields and supply you with Dark Beams and CB's so creeper nor drones are any problem, I don't think many great end boss maps will be made.
With a lot of fields you can of course also make great end bosses but knowing some of the people here using a Nexus (maybe even two) will be the general rule. Not to mention the fact that every moving field can be stopped by using shields.
So far my optimistic views of the future ;D
what about an uber dense creeper creation? that's what I'm puttin my money on.... or lots of them.... *evil laugh*
Quote from: Ebon_Heart on June 02, 2011, 07:21:48 AM
what about an uber dense creeper creation? that's what I'm puttin my money on.... or lots of them.... *evil laugh*
The problem is that in order to restrain über dense creeper you need to use very strong fields which will never overflow. That makes it quite easy to evade the creation. The difficulty in this game won't be about the density of the creation but about the threat it is for your initial base, and in order to do that you need to make the creeper less dense which won't appeal as much as a giant monster with a 2billion creeper density.
Note that even in Day 20 the end boss means no harm as it's enclosed by terrain and you can easily build up enough energy to power enough DB's, the only threat in that level is the loss of your crystal energy earlier on (and still Day 20 is a lot easier than 17, 18 and 19).
I agree with sqaz
for the same reasons
You underestimate the creativity of Ebon and I. There are plenty of ways to make bosses dangerous.
I am not the best CW1 map maker, but even I have some ideas as to make bosses both dangerous to fight off when first starting, and hard to push back and destroy.
The best bosses are the ones that make the player pause and just stare at the screen for a minute mumbling "what just happened?"
Quote from: Krell on June 02, 2011, 11:04:06 AM
The best bosses are the ones that make the player pause and just stare at the screen for a minute mumbling "what just happened?"
Oh and me thinking I was playing this game for the tactical fun of finding a way to make my LS survive by balancing the militairy and civilian ratio of my buidlings. ;)
Quote from: TonyP2000 on June 02, 2011, 10:58:43 AM
I am not the best CW1 map maker, but even I have some ideas as to make bosses both dangerous to fight off when first starting, and hard to push back and destroy.
Quote from: Krell on June 02, 2011, 10:47:59 AM
You underestimate the creativity of Ebon and I. There are plenty of ways to make bosses dangerous.
I'm most anxiously awaiting the map editor to see all these great ideas. But know that a lot of maps of which the author thought that it were expert maps got beaten without any problems by a trick or just casual gameplay.
I must say secretly I'm looking forward to seeing these maps as much as I don't want them to appear.
But for curiosity's sake what are your ideas?
Maybe it are things I never thought of, in which case I'll admit that boss maps can be better than other ones.
lol I'm not sure if I should share or not, for I fear someone might take my ideas.
Quote from: Krell on June 02, 2011, 11:24:57 AM
lol I'm not sure if I should share or not, for I fear someone might take my ideas.
There is always a difference between knowing an idea and making a map out of it.
I'm pretty sure that all reading this will prefer making there own maps than using someone else's idea.
You also will be one of the first, being a forum regular, to use the editor, so you probably will already have the map ready before someone can copy it.
And why are you so afraid of it, plagiatry is the sincerest form of flattery. No map from someone else can be as good as one of which you found the idea by yourself.
And most important: I'm bloody curious now ;D
I have I idea for a really stupid boss .. but hopefully a little challenging and fun too :D
Quote from: Sqaz on June 02, 2011, 04:47:12 AM
CW2 of course offers a lot more possibilities, but since the Nexus destroys almost all stuff when ready, and to make it even somewhat beatable you must contain it in Level 4 fields and supply you with Dark Beams and CB's so creeper nor drones are any problem, I don't think many great end boss maps will be made.
With a lot of fields you can of course also make great end bosses but knowing some of the people here using a Nexus (maybe even two) will be the general rule. Not to mention the fact that every moving field can be stopped by using shields.
I don't think the Nexus (because it's too weak) nor the Dark Beam (because it's too strong) will be included in many custom maps, unless applied in a very smart way.
Yes, shields can block moving fields, but drones have shields for breakfast. Apart from that you can't build shields when there's already Creeper at that location....
lol fine fine. my boss is going to have lots of annoying skills and it's likely to be a very long fight. Going to have the boss re-absorb creeper so less is wasted, going to put some serious time and effort into some tentacles to hassle you and destroy packets, a creeper beam, a really powerful spell that will really mess up the player, along with some other things as well that may make the boss beyond most players. I'm hoping to make a boss so hard that only 5-10 players beat it.
The main problem I anticipate with most of the boss fights, is that they will be made to do illogical/stupid things that are completely impossible to anticipate, and make good plays turn into bad plays - like, if a boss randomly teleports creeper into your base and kills all your reactors, and you were supposed to know exactly where it was teleporting the creeper to and make shields around it... that is not good design whatsoever. It would need to be designed in a way that the boss doesn't do things that are completely unpredictable, but still have enough abilities that it doesn't get dull. Having some strong drones appear occasionally is pretty much a necessity or shields will make it really easy.
Lol, bosses are meant to be played multiple times. You aren't supposed to beat a boss the first time around Kithros. If you do you're either really really good, lucky, or a cheater. The best boss fights are the ones you get closer to winning each time around until you finally win and get to taste sweet victory.
Quote from: Krell on June 03, 2011, 01:03:56 PM
Lol, bosses are meant to be played multiple times. You aren't supposed to beat a boss the first time around Kithros. If you do you're either really really good, lucky, or a cheater. The best boss fights are the ones you get closer to winning each time around until you finally win and get to taste sweet victory.
That is the main part of my point. If someone is a *perfect* player, then they should be able to beat the map even if they haven't played it before. Given that the players will not know how the fields move and such though at the start of the map (to some extent common sense/text in missions can cover this, but not always), if the map is not designed carefully it is quite possible that someone who plays the game perfectly given what they know will still lose because of things that are impossible to anticipate.
ok how about I put it this way. I could tell you exactly how my boss is going to work and you're still not going to be able to stop most of it. I could always place a holocube on the map, but it won't change much.
While I admit, I like a tough fight, I only like the fair ones... Any gimmicks should be either predictable or possible to recover from. A battle that is genuinely very difficult against a flowing and dynamic enemy that plays by the rules is fun. A battle that requires playing 5-7 times just to figure out how to avoid losing to the enemy's "special move" is ridiculous. To put it this way, I don't want to be tricked into thinking I'm doing well only to find out later that I had to move my base to the other end of the map by 8:45 or lose to a huge amount of creeper teleporting in. The boss's moves must make sense and be to a reasonable extent predictable.
lol how about this: Rest assured, for anything that will do severe enough damage you will be warned beforehand via holocube, though odds are it won't make any difference since most of it is going to be near impossible to prevent anyways.
I have soon so many great ideas.
9/10 of those ideas are rushed into a map
(including some of my maps in cw1)
so even if your idea is good, I'm almost certain it will not be what you expected of it in your head
and if your map is unbeatable..... you cant realy submit it becuase you need to validate it.
lol hence the competition. I expect half of these to be ridiculous. The best boss is the nearly impossible to beat one.
and most of my maps have actually come out really nicely. there was one mistake that I submitted once, but I fixed that and the maps came out pretty well actually.
Quote from: Kithros on June 03, 2011, 12:55:04 PM
The main problem I anticipate with most of the boss fights, is that they will be made to do illogical/stupid things that are completely impossible to anticipate, and make good plays turn into bad plays - like, if a boss randomly teleports creeper into your base and kills all your reactors, and you were supposed to know exactly where it was teleporting the creeper to and make shields around it... that is not good design whatsoever. It would need to be designed in a way that the boss doesn't do things that are completely unpredictable, but still have enough abilities that it doesn't get dull. Having some strong drones appear occasionally is pretty much a necessity or shields will make it really easy.
Quote from: mthw2vc on June 03, 2011, 01:31:52 PM
While I admit, I like a tough fight, I only like the fair ones... Any gimmicks should be either predictable or possible to recover from. A battle that is genuinely very difficult against a flowing and dynamic enemy that plays by the rules is fun. A battle that requires playing 5-7 times just to figure out how to avoid losing to the enemy's "special move" is ridiculous. To put it this way, I don't want to be tricked into thinking I'm doing well only to find out later that I had to move my base to the other end of the map by 8:45 or lose to a huge amount of creeper teleporting in. The boss's moves must make sense and be to a reasonable extent predictable.
First of all it's a matter of taste. ;) That said most people indeed won't like it when millions of Creeper get transported towards your base, so if something like that is done, the introduction text (or a holocube) should warn the player for that. This is exactly how it worked for CW1: tell the player what to expect and everything is fine. Map makers who don't will hear this soon in the comments.
Like most CW players you both probably are the kind of player who loves to be in control of the situation. Who isn't? I know I do. After playing for a while however I like to be surprised anyway. Not too much of course, but just enough to keep me alert.
It's no big deal if you have to restart a very hard map a couple of times; for me this only increases the challenge and the fun I have. If that octopus suddenly stretches his tentacles, that's fine with me. I don't have to know everything in advance. Nobody knew the space invader in Day 18 would show up, but I still loved it.
So before we judge anything, let's just see first. I'm sure many map makers will come up with very nice designs. Some will be annoying or disappointing, but probably many of them will show the creativity of this community and inspire others to make something even better. :)
This is so cool! you can pretty much think of any animal or object, and make it an insane boss. For example, you could have a comb boss, and with enough work, make it a tough fight. Or a bird, or the epic turtle of doom.... lmao. Creeper is Creeper, even if it's in a differnt shape.
I'm thinking of making a MegaMan
Quote from: Yelik on June 05, 2011, 12:23:32 PM
I'm thinking of making a MegaMan
I thought of that... My big one I'm gonna make though is... get ready,
Spoiler
SUPER MARIO!
as in galaxy, if you get my meaning...
I've already called dibs on Space Invaders and Pacman. :)
Quote from: Ebon_Heart on June 06, 2011, 10:23:06 PM
Quote from: Yelik on June 05, 2011, 12:23:32 PM
I'm thinking of making a MegaMan
I thought of that... My big one I'm gonna make though is... get ready, Spoiler
SUPER MARIO!
Sorry Ebon_Heart, but your ideas are (also) in another castle. (By castle, I mean, myself. Though it's not really a boss, just more of a super Mario themed level).
I have some competicion then? alright. lol. I actually have an idea for a sort of joke series where the styglek get obsessed wtih some nintendo games... And I suppose the super mario galaxy idea has been widely thought of, considering the gravity on the later bonus missions. Oh well, we can make a game out of it. XD
I personally was thinking of a level that starts above ground then goes into the underground stages. I just need to find learn how to change the tiles/sprites for the ground to the bricks. It would also be cool to make a Metroid level.
....... you and I think too much alike. lmao. Maybe we could work together on some of these maps? that could turn out pretty cool.
your all going a bit off-topic
we're still talking about cw2 maps. And for what I have planned... it's not off topic. it'll be a boss.
It goes from a tournament of bosses to you guys talking about a mario/metroid level and all that. It sounds just like a regular(ish) custom map to me... And no, strong emitters / drones are no serious bosses if you ask me.
Quote from: ontheworld on June 08, 2011, 01:19:56 AM
And no, strong emitters / drones are no serious bosses if you ask me.
You need a strong emitter to make sure the player does not push their way in too easily with few weapons and drones to destroy the shields. A strong emitter and a gateway for drones (and spores if you want) are the base but you have to play around with the fields to create the best shape and attacks.
Plus, if you want lots of cool -as well as dense- fields, you need lots of creeper coming from a strong emitter or multiple weaker emitters.
Quote from: ontheworld on June 08, 2011, 01:19:56 AM
It goes from a tournament of bosses to you guys talking about a mario/metroid level and all that. It sounds just like a regular(ish) custom map to me... And no, strong emitters / drones are no serious bosses if you ask me.
ehh, I was thinking of a giant creeper mario that thows fireballs and stuff at you.... maybe a big creeper bowser.... I could even make peach a boss! lmao.
lol, you're focusing far to much on shape rather than fight. A good shape for your boss is a must for a winning entry, but does not make or break the boss.
You know me, I love my maps to have both looks, and practicality, but I'll never sacrifice practicality (at least too much) for the sake of looks. Believe me, if I wanna make a princess boss, it'll be one baddass princess!
EDIT: modified spelling to make up for auto correct on my ipod.
Quote from: Ebon_Heart on June 08, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
You know me, I love my maps to have both looks, and practicality, but I'll never sacrifice practicality (at least too much) for the sake of looks. Believe me, if I wanna make a princess boss, it'll be one basses princess!
With the max height of the maps and making sure you'll have enough space for enough energy, it'll need a bit of scaling me thinks. In the meantime I'm just gonna think of fairly reachable maps.
maybe... but cubic has shown us how hard it can be to deal with one cell of creeper.