Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World => Custom Map Discussion => Custom Map Comments => Topic started by: AutoPost on June 15, 2010, 08:33:16 PM

Title: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: AutoPost on June 15, 2010, 08:33:16 PM
This topic is for discussion of map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2308)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/thumb.php?id=2308) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2308)

Author: UpperKEES (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/viewmaps.php?author=UpperKEES)

Desc:
This map is probably on the edge between 'Medium' and 'Hard', but I've chosen for 'Medium' as you never have to engage the creeper in the parts where it's deep and intensive, which makes this map definitely easier than my hard rated maps. Put on your lab coat and enjoy!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 15, 2010, 08:47:58 PM
Title:
Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Difficulty:
Medium
Creeper type:
Land only
Remarks:
This map is probably on the edge between 'Medium' and 'Hard', but I've chosen for 'Medium' as you never have to engage the creeper in the parts where it's deep and intensive, which makes this map definitely easier than my hard rated maps. Put on your lab coat and enjoy!
Description:
When you arrive at your chemistry laboratory, you notice that your set up looks fine, but your formulas are all over the place.

Because this is your first day as a chemist you really need them. Fortunately your chemicals are still in their test tubes and the beaker.

Please use all chemicals, collect the formulas and light the Bunsen burner before you get killed in that Erlenmeyer flask!
Download page:
Nice Job 18: The Chemist (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2308)
Full size screen shot:
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=978.0;attach=766;image)
More maps:
Apply here for another job ;) (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=978.0)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: NNR_Alex on June 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
I think i've come to the conclusion that whatever your time is, i usually take at least twice as long, at least on my first run, i'm not sure how i could speed up my run on this one, but i don't really play for scores anyways, at least i kept it under an hour this time.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: snowmaker (JM) on June 16, 2010, 07:43:37 PM
Nice map. Oh course, I have always enjoyed your themed maps. Keep em coming.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 16, 2010, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: NNR_Alex on June 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
I think i've come to the conclusion that whatever your time is, i usually take at least twice as long, at least on my first run, i'm not sure how i could speed up my run on this one, but i don't really play for scores anyways, at least i kept it under an hour this time.

On my first run I would be about 10 minutes slower as well, so don't worry about that. Regarding shaving off those last few minutes: I've been playing CW almost daily for about half a year now, so just keep going and you'll keep improving. I still do. And having fun is much more important than setting a fast time; it's just that setting a fast time is a lot of fun to me as I love that additional challenge.

Quote from: JM on June 16, 2010, 07:43:37 PM
Nice map. Oh course, I have always enjoyed your themed maps. Keep em coming.

Thanks JM! :) 7 more will be released (2 per week). Nice Job 25 will be the last in this series. They're all finished by now and I'm very happy with how they turned out.

Edit:

Quote from: NNR_Alex on June 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
i'm not sure how i could speed up my run on this one

I forgot to give a tip:

Spoiler
After building collectors on and under the table and to the right of the Erlenmeyer flask you should have an energy collection of about 4 units per second. This is enough to build some blasters and get the first 3 techs and upgrades (in the bottom test tubes). I use 4 blasters for this, besides the 2 I already had to defend OC. Then stop advancing and build reactors until you have enough energy to complete the map. Finishing it is just a matter of 5-7 minutes after that.
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: NNR_Alex on June 16, 2010, 10:41:13 PM
well i just shaved a lot of time off my run on my second go through.  again i probably do things the hard way, i build collectors on and under the table all right but i also go up the sides of the map, leap frogging my way to try and keep as much creeper back as i can, then i go for the top test tubes first, so i at least have the speed tech and drones to make things go faster, usually two drones to just bomb the bottom test tubes and clear out enough creeper so my blasters are overwhelmed when i drop them in, after that it's in the bad when i round up the last notes.  normally i hate using drones but they come in handy this time.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 16, 2010, 11:04:27 PM
Ah! 12 minutes faster!  8)

The nice thing about most CW maps (and I hope including mine) is that you can solve them in many different ways. I always try to allow for that freedom.

Spoiler
I never thought of going up on the sides because I figured it would cost me more energy than the additional collectors would bring me, but maybe I am wrong about that. The speed tech is always nice to have (I use them for every map when available), but as long as you stay close to OC you don't really need it (yet).
[close]

Spoiler
On a map with limited space I always go for the reactor tech first, because getting more energy will allow me to build more structures at the same time and give my final attack a huge push. When I'm up to about 10 energy, I just create 12 more blasters (2 batches of 6), so I can rush forward dropping them into enemy territory and building the connecting collectors behind them.
[close]

Spoiler
This is also how I conquer the test tubes: I drop all blasters above the lower tubes and quickly build a collector inside that area. One blaster is enough to stop the creeper from 1 tube and I leap frog a second into the tube. Your worst enemy at that time is your deficit, so don't spend your energy on anything else. After getting the first 2 upgrades a part of that problem is already solved. (And now I think about it, I should have chosen 10% more energy first, instead of 10% less building costs).
[close]

Spoiler
I only use 1 drone in the end to clear some terrain before I drop my blasters. Mortars will often target the creeper inside the laboratory glasswork, but because I've set the intensity so that they won't overflow it's actually a waste of energy. Just keep a blaster close to their exit for a Loki effect. ;)
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Karsten75 on June 16, 2010, 11:17:12 PM
I'm amazed and impressed with the exquisite effects you've achieved in this map.  But as usual with your maps, I fail. :(

Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 16, 2010, 11:45:33 PM
Thanks Karsten! :)

Did you read the above tips I just posted before you tried? That might help a lot.

Spoiler
I've made a screenshot how to defend your initial position with almost no cost of energy (because of the narrow spaces the creeper has to go through, which makes a blaster very efficient), see attachment. The 3rd blaster is not needed, but was used to conquer the top part of the terrain and will be used to get the techs & upgrades.
[close]

Spoiler

Quote from: UpperKEES on June 16, 2010, 09:43:56 PM
After building collectors on and under the table and to the right of the Erlenmeyer flask you should have an energy collection of about 4 units per second.

Correction: apparently it is 3.2 units of energy per second at that moment.
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Karsten75 on June 17, 2010, 02:03:18 AM
I had a different strategy, but it didn't work out. I might try again. I think I won your Netherlands map, but I don't recall any other map since then.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: NNR_Alex on June 17, 2010, 02:21:14 AM
i usually think 'how much energy can i get first before diving in fully'.  i knew the creeper would be easy enough to push back up along the sides, it's the loki effect as you discribed it only now it's a long narrow tunnel rather than a small opening.  i used 3 blasters to go up the sides, two to start leap frogging my way up, but when you get to the high wall that the creeper overflows on you have to leave a blaster there to keep it from overflowing into the narrow passage way, that's where the third blaster comes in at.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 17, 2010, 02:50:18 AM
Quote from: Karsten75 on June 17, 2010, 02:03:18 AM
I had a different strategy, but it didn't work out. I might try again. I think I won your Netherlands map, but I don't recall any other map since then.

My Netherlands map (NJ-1: The Engineer (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=1434)) is definitely harder than this one, because of the energy limit and the emitters that are closer together. The time you've set there is actually very good!

Two other relatively easy maps are NJ-8: The Life Guard (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3064) (don't let the amount of emitters scare you; most of them are set to zero) and NJ-10: The Teacher (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188). You can also give these a try if you like.

Quote from: NNR_Alex on June 17, 2010, 02:21:14 AM
i usually think 'how much energy can i get first before diving in fully'.  i knew the creeper would be easy enough to push back up along the sides, it's the loki effect as you discribed it only now it's a long narrow tunnel rather than a small opening.  i used 3 blasters to go up the sides, two to start leap frogging my way up, but when you get to the high wall that the creeper overflows on you have to leave a blaster there to keep it from overflowing into the narrow passage way, that's where the third blaster comes in at.

I might give this a try when someone beats my score. This is not unlikely, because I recall setting a better time during testing (I lost 2 collectors in a test tube due to a deficit). Thanks for sharing your strategy!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Fisherck on June 17, 2010, 06:42:52 PM
Very fun map! It took me a little more than a couple tries to get
my time down, let alone finish it. I liked how you needed to fight
the Creeper at multiple points, keeping you multitasking.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 17, 2010, 09:04:37 PM
Thanks Fisherck! :)

And wow, the completion times got very close (top 3)!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Karsten75 on June 17, 2010, 10:26:27 PM
I did it myyyyyyy way (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://s0.ilike.com/play%23Frank%2BSinatra:My%2BWay:17223:s1376127.8123635.12492569.0.1.74%252Cstd_c3e73399f4d92828a552e4507510688b&sa=X&ei=udgaTNmQMIT48AbNpaTDCQ&ved=0CBMQ0wQoADAA&usg=AFQjCNG8kW1aq6MmoAiYfSrMY6w22ab18Q)... (with apologies to Frank Sinatra).
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 17, 2010, 11:03:35 PM
:)

I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way


Quite applicable actually!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Vile on June 18, 2010, 02:20:28 AM
Well...it kicked my arse.  It was completed finally, but the time is awful.  VERY nice map!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 18, 2010, 04:34:29 AM
Thanks Vile! :) Nice to see a new 'face' around here.

Time doesn't matter that much when you had fun though. I'm not sure if you've been fighting the creeper in the laboratory glasswork; that would cost quite some time (and energy).

What I do is:

Spoiler
I build a relay after dropping some blasters in the middle section above the beaker (that contained the blaster tech) to go up, thus avoiding the intensive creeper parts with the emitters. So I only cap the emitters in the test tubes and the beaker.
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: RichieRich on June 18, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
Thanks UpperKees - that was really interesting - I see I got a time quite close to yours but I actually went left and right from the start  - after a few tries I figured as it only took one blaster to hold own the testtube and only light energy use in going up the left it might be a better energy gain. By the time I got the relay I just had to place them to finish the map.

If I got my multitasking down better I figure I could take a bit of time off.

Hmmm, I'll have a think about it and give it another go later. :D

Thanks again and much appreciated.

PS, I got a new laptop and was able to play the Lifeguard - posting the worst time  ;D Interesting emitters
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 18, 2010, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: RichieRich on June 18, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
Thanks UpperKees - that was really interesting - I see I got a time quite close to yours but I actually went left and right from the start  - after a few tries I figured as it only took one blaster to hold own the testtube and only light energy use in going up the left it might be a better energy gain. By the time I got the relay I just had to place them to finish the map.

Thanks also to you for playing again! :)

Hmmm, sounds like I should be able to improve my own score as well now everybody seems to be going up at the sides....

Quote from: RichieRich on June 18, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
If I got my multitasking down better I figure I could take a bit of time off.

Just pause every 10-15 seconds. The pause button (or 'P') is my best friend. ;)

Quote from: RichieRich on June 18, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
Hmmm, I'll have a think about it and give it another go later. :D

Thanks again and much appreciated.

Better be quick; a new map will be released tonight. 8)

By the way: I just noticed you are the second to pass the 100,000 points barrier for the Nice Job high scores (http://home.pages.at/lemming_data/creeperworld/UpperKEES.htm). :)

Quote from: RichieRich on June 18, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
PS, I got a new laptop and was able to play the Lifeguard - posting the worst time  ;D Interesting emitters

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that people are able to keep those pods alive for 15 minutes!  :o
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Miss Melissa on June 21, 2010, 01:59:26 AM
i really liked this map with its confined spaces.. its a real energy saver. I actually paid attention to the map forum this time.. im sure it improved my score.  :)

Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Karsten75 on June 21, 2010, 06:47:58 AM
You may have to revisit this map yourself - too many of us are now bettering your score... :P
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 21, 2010, 08:00:06 AM
Quote from: Miss Melissa on June 21, 2010, 01:59:26 AM
i really liked this map with its confined spaces.. its a real energy saver. I actually paid attention to the map forum this time.. im sure it improved my score.  :)

Thanks Melissa! :)

Reading the comments always helps, as I tend to give some tips along the way. On the other hand I know you're the kind of player that likes to figure out everything yourself, which might also lead to a solution nobody else thought of.

Very nice score you got there! ;) Three minutes faster than mine, so I'll certainly have a hard time beating that one, but I'll definitely try....

Quote from: Karsten75 on June 21, 2010, 06:47:58 AM
You may have to revisit this map yourself - too many of us are now bettering your score... :P

Wow! You improved your score a lot! :o I'll indeed have to play again and I love that. It happened quite often recently with my own maps, so I guess players are getting better and better, which certainly enhances the competition element. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 23, 2010, 05:25:38 AM
Quote from: Karsten75 on June 21, 2010, 06:47:58 AM
You may have to revisit this map yourself - too many of us are now bettering your score... :P

Done! ;)

Spoiler
I'm sure it can be done at least 1-2 minutes faster though. During my first attempt I used 10-11 energy, this time only 6.  8)
[close]
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 19, 2010, 10:32:26 AM
QuoteRank   Player         Score   Time                  Total Missions

(...)

17   Anonymous   6265   35 min 46 sec   27

Wow! It could very well be that Anonymous holds the record for the total number of missions! When you finish the same map 27 times I guess you must like it. ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Sqaz on July 19, 2010, 11:29:07 AM
Quote from: UpperKEES on July 19, 2010, 10:32:26 AM
QuoteRank   Player         Score   Time                  Total Missions

(...)

17   Anonymous   6265   35 min 46 sec   27

Wow! It could very well be that Anonymous holds the record for the total number of missions! When you finish the same map 27 times I guess you must like it. ;)

Or, everyone that plays like Anonymous gets his total missions there, cause 27 times playing the same map that's alot, even for a map like one of UpperKEES ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 19, 2010, 11:36:40 AM
Yeah, but when so many users would be submitting their scores as 'Anonymous' you would expect to see more high totals for the number of missions for other maps and this is the only one I've seen so far. It would also be rather coincidental that all these anonymous users play the same map within a one month time frame.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: DethbyIT on August 29, 2010, 07:03:12 AM
That was great fun.
I don't care about time - just winning.

Thanks for putting another great map together.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on September 02, 2010, 01:12:19 PM
Yeah, finishing (and saving OC) is the most important and satisfying part.

Thank you for playing so many maps lately! :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: eudrick on December 08, 2010, 10:48:14 PM
That was one heck of a fight.  I used BOTH of the strategies that the others talked about, which probably cost me a bunch of time.  However, not striving to post best times, it was a wonderful learning experience.  I noted, for my own improvement, where I would have been able to save energy and increase speed and this will aid me in the rest of the NJ series.  I've got to say that these maps have radically improved my skill level.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on December 09, 2010, 10:23:31 AM
Quote from: eudrick on December 08, 2010, 10:48:14 PM
That was one heck of a fight.  I used BOTH of the strategies that the others talked about, which probably cost me a bunch of time.

Glad you liked it!

Quote from: eudrick on December 08, 2010, 10:48:14 PM
However, not striving to post best times, it was a wonderful learning experience.  I noted, for my own improvement, where I would have been able to save energy and increase speed and this will aid me in the rest of the NJ series.  I've got to say that these maps have radically improved my skill level.  Thanks.

That's even better! I've heard it before: people who start playing relatively hard maps become better players (and because of that better map makers). I remember very well how some people were struggling with the first maps they played from my series and these same players are currently kicking my *ss on a regular basis! ;)

PS: wow, this map has been played 119 times now! 8) (Thanks to Anonymous.)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: DethbyIT on January 04, 2011, 09:25:31 AM
Yet another great game from UK!
I gave up on some of yours for a while (too tough for my skill set), but have started playing them again - with much better success.

Great stuff - thanks for putting them together.
dbit
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: UpperKEES on January 11, 2011, 08:10:26 PM
Quote from: DethbyIT on January 04, 2011, 09:25:31 AM
I gave up on some of yours for a while (too tough for my skill set), but have started playing them again - with much better success.

Never give up on them; they can all be finished after gaining some experience and you are a good example of that! :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 18: The Chemist
Post by: Von on January 12, 2011, 11:40:37 AM
This map is my personal favorite I must beat that high score though. Ok I know what I'm doing for the next week.