Liberation Ship | Amount | # Upgrades | Upgrade Effect |
Health | 20 | 0 | - |
Heal rate | 0.09/sec | 0 | - |
Energy generation | 1.0 | 5 | +10% |
Energy storage | 20 | 5 | +40 |
Ore storage | 20 | 10 | +100 |
Packet speed | 5 cells/sec | 5 | +1.25 cells/sec |
Movement speed | 1.25 cells/sec | 0 | - |
Beacon range | 12.5 | 0 | - |
System | Cost / -20% | Function | Energy per sec | Health | Heal rate | Amount of upgrades | Upgrade Effect |
Reactor | 5 / 4 | 0.15 energy/sec | 0 | 0 | - | 5 | +10% energy |
Ore Rig | 10 / 8 | 1 ore/sec | 0.06 | 0 | - | 5 | +10% ore |
Beacon | 15 / 12 | power area (radius 9.5) | 0.06 | 0 | - | 3 | +2 cells radius |
Tech Dome | 10(+5) / 8(+4) | 0.021 technyte/sec | 0.06 | 0 | - | 3 | +10% technytes |
Shield | 5 / 4 | block creeper | 0 | 75 | 0.03/sec | 0 | - |
Microrift | 50 / 40 | instant transport | 0 | 0 | - | 0 | - |
Weapon | Cost / -20% | Ammo capacity | Energy per shot | Health | Heal rate | Max. damage per shot |
Blaster | 25 / 20 | 8 | 0.2 | 5 | 0.09/sec | 184,000 |
Maker | 50 / 40 | - | 0 | 5 | 0.09/sec | 120,000 |
Nullifier | 50 / 40 | - | 0 | 0 | - | 1 health/emitter |
Launcher | 50 / 40 | 12 | 3 | 5 | 0.09/sec | 11,500,000 |
Repulsor | 20 / 16 | 15 | 0.05/cell/sec | 5 | 0.09/sec | - |
Phantom Coil | 5 / 4 | 10 | 2.4/sec | 0.5 | 0.09/sec | 0.6/sec/phantom |
Experimental | Cost / -20% | Ammo capacity | Energy usage | Health | Heal rate | Max. damage |
Conversion Bomb | 80 / 64 | - | - | 10 | 0.09/sec | creeper in range x 2 |
Dark Beam | 100 / 80 | 100 | 12/sec | 0.5 | 0.09/sec | creeper in range |
Dark Mirror | 5 / 4 | - | - | 2 | 0.09/sec | - |
Weapon & Exp. upgrades | Fire rate (shots/sec) 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 | Fire range (cells) 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 | Move speed (cells/sec) 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 |
Blaster | 3 / 3.75 / 5 / 7.5 | 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 | 1.25 / 1.56 / 1.88 / 2.19 |
Maker | 1 / 1.2 / 1.5 / 2 | 7.5M / 15M / 30M / 60M* | 0.63 / 0.78 / 0.94 / 1.09 |
Nullifier | 1 time use | 2 / same | - |
Launcher | 0.33 / 0.38 / 0.43 / 0.5 | 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 | 0.94 / 1.17 / 1.41 / 1.64 |
Repulsor | continuous | 3-6-9 / same | 1.25 / 1.56 / 1.88 / 2.19 |
Phantom Coil | continuous | 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 | 0.94 / 1.17 / 1.41 / 1.64 |
Conversion Bomb | 1 time use | 2 / same | 0.50 / 0.63 / 0.75 / 0.88 |
Dark Beam | continuous | unlimited | - |
Dark Mirror | - | - | 2.50 / 3.13 / 3.75 / 4.38 |
Number of fire rate upgrades | Max. damage/sec 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 | Max. energy usage/sec 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 | Max. damage / unit of energy 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 |
Blaster | 552,000 / 690,000 / 920,000 / 1,380,000 | 0.6 / 0.75 / 1 / 1.5 | 920,000 |
Maker | 120,000 / 144,000 / 180,000 / 240,000 | 0.24 / 0.29 / 0.36 / 0.48* | 500,000** |
Launcher | 3,833,333 / 4,312,500 / 4,928,571 / 5,750,000 | 1 / 1.13 / 1.29 / 1.5 | 3,833,333 |
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 09, 2011, 09:34:50 PM
I thought it would be nice to have an overview of all unit data. Maybe Virgil can provide some more info, but we can also fill in the blanks by ourselves, so please post if you found some interesting data and I will update the tables. Later on I will mark data green when it has been verified or when the info was supplied by Virgil.
Assault Ship Capacity # Upgrades Upgrade Effect Energy storage 20 5+40 Ore storage 20 5+40 Packet speed ? subcells/sec 5+? subcells/sec
System Cost / -20%Function Energy usage Health# Upgrades Upgrade Effect Reactor 5 / 41 energy/sec 0 0 5+10% energy Ore Rig 20 / 161 ore/sec 1 per 500 frames 0 5+10% ore Beacon 15 / 12power area (radius 10) 1 per 500 frames 0 3+2 radius Tech Dome 5 / 40.009 technyte/sec 1 per 1000 frames 0 3+5% technytes Shield 5 / 4block creeper 0 75 0- Microrift 50 / 40instant transport ? 0 0-
Weapon
Cost / -20%
Energy/shot
Max. damage/shot Firing delay in frames
0 / 1 / 2 / 3 Fire range
0 / 1 / 2 / 3 Move speed
0 / 1 / 2 / 3Blaster 25 / 20~.2 84000/subcellMaker 50 / 4020000/ore N/A N/A N/A Nullifier 50 / 400 "Infinity" N/A 3 N/A Launcher 50 / 403 250000/subcell 90 / 81 / 72 (?) / 63 (?) 6 / 7 / 8 (?) / 9 (?) Repulsor 30 / 24Phantom Coil 5 / 4
Quote from: Karsten75 on March 09, 2011, 09:39:30 PM
Add health data?
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 09, 2011, 10:18:52 PM
It doesn't appear to me that packets are traveling 4 pixels every second... Those must be really big pixels! :P
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 09, 2011, 10:20:51 PM50 if it hits the center subcell twice. I originally thought they caused twice as much damage because I was only meausuring one subcell.
Thanks Virgil, that really helps! :)
mthw2vc, aren't the blaster & launcher damage totals done to a maximum of 49 (7x7) subcells? See here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=6289.msg35465#msg35465).
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 09, 2011, 10:25:27 PM
50 if it hits the center subcell twice. I originally thought they caused twice as much damage because I was only meausuring one subcell.
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 09, 2011, 10:18:52 PMUh hmm... Yes big pixels indeed :)
It doesn't appear to me that packets are traveling 4 pixels every second... Those must be really big pixels! :P
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 09, 2011, 10:37:41 PM
4000 and 250000 per subcell, so 200K and 12.5M total, given ideal circumstances.
Quote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 10:43:34 PM
That should be 4 per frame (or 120 native pixels per second). Which would be 5 cells per second.
Quote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 10:56:19 PM
I just looked at one line of code (that had a 4 on it:) ) It might do to double check by pausing the game right when the clock ticks. Then build something 25 cells away (in a straight line, on the same row), and see if it takes 5 seconds for a packet to get there.
Quote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 11:03:25 PM
In time.... :)
I almost hate to show anyone the editor. It is so packed with stuff... and I'm not even done yet.
Quote from: Blaze on March 10, 2011, 12:03:58 AM
Basically, we could almost make a whole new game based on creeper with it?
Quote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 11:21:41 PM
It holds 8 ammo and each shot drains 0.2.
I'll have to look at why this isn't 40 clean shots. I bet it has to do with floating point error and the last amount of ammo is actually .19999999... But I'll take a look.
Quote from: Karsten75 on March 09, 2011, 10:58:59 PMQuote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 10:56:19 PM
I just looked at one line of code (that had a 4 on it:) ) It might do to double check by pausing the game right when the clock ticks. Then build something 25 cells away (in a straight line, on the same row), and see if it takes 5 seconds for a packet to get there.
Map. editor. now. please.
Quote from: virgilw on March 09, 2011, 11:03:25 PM
In time.... :)
I almost hate to show anyone the editor. It is so packed with stuff... and I'm not even done yet.
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 10, 2011, 08:13:55 AM
Add LS data?
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 10, 2011, 08:36:47 AM
Upgrading beacon range does not affect AS range.
Quote from: Aurzel on March 10, 2011, 10:20:05 AM
i dont think beacon range upgrade should affect the AS, it's called beacon for a reason :P
Quote from: mthw2vc on March 09, 2011, 10:25:27 PM
50 if it hits the center subcell twice. I originally thought they caused twice as much damage because I was only meausuring one subcell.
Unit | Default speed (pixels per frame) | Increase per upgrade | ||
AS | 1.00 | +0.0000 | ||
blaster, repulsor | 1.00 | +0.2500 | ||
launcher, phantom coil | 0.75 | +0.1875 | ||
maker | 0.50 | +0.1250 | ||
conversion bomb | 0.40 | +0.1000 | ||
dark mirror | 2.00 | +0.5000 |
Quote from: thepenguin on March 17, 2011, 06:25:32 PM
never knew C.bombs could move
Quote from: Grauniad on May 16, 2011, 01:52:33 PM
Makers stop if they run out of ore reserves.
Quote from: DethbyIT on May 18, 2011, 06:05:59 AM
I got a thread notification that this topic has been split:
"A topic you are watching has been split into two or more topics by Grauniad.
View what remains of this topic at: http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=6373.new;topicseen#new"
Where is the new thread?
dbit
Quote from: Ranakastrasz on June 06, 2011, 06:05:20 PMActually, a cell is a whole side, consisting of 9 subcells ;)
Well, the calculation sounds like per side rather than per cell, though it would be nearly impossible to calculate it per cell without fields available in the right spot.
Quote from: Ranakastrasz on June 06, 2011, 06:05:20 PMThe former. Think of it this way: an ore rig normally digs up 10 ore in X seconds. After applying the upgrade, each rig will deplete the deposit by the same 10 ore in those same X seconds, but 11 ore will be added to your storage. In other words, you get 10% more ore and get it 10% faster for each upgrade you apply.
Question about extractor upgrade, Does it give you more ore per ore in the deposit, and do makers then produce more creeper per ore?
Quote from: Ranakastrasz on June 06, 2011, 06:05:20 PM
Well, the calculation sounds like per side rather than per cell, though it would be nearly impossible to calculate it per cell without fields available in the right spot.
Quote from: Ranakastrasz on June 06, 2011, 06:05:20 PM
Question about extractor upgrade, Does it give you more ore per ore in the deposit, and do makers then produce more creeper per ore?
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 06, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
Yep, that's why I used the word 'side' ;) Not sure what you mean by 'cell' (1 cell consists out of 9 subcells). As far as I know 1 side is considered being touched when at least one adjacent subcell contains Creeper in a particular frame. Unlike for wall elements in CW1 diagonal cells are not taken into account. Also not sure what fields have to do with it....
Quote from: virgilw on 23 March 2011, 22:05:35
Damage is boolean... a unit either takes damage or it doesn't. So more subcells with creeper does not increase damage.
Quote from: virgilw on 30 March 2011, 20:07:54
Right now, the creeper calculation looks to see if there is a shield in any adjacent cell. If so, it will damage this shield. When a shield is in the construction phase, it doesn't show up to the creeper calculation (since the creeper calculation would also not move creeper into a subcell covered by a shield).
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
Could you update this overview to make it up-to-date, and add some extra info?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-How fast does a maker "fire" after fire rate upgrades?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-What is the strength of an repulsor? Is this affected by the fire rate upgrades?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-What is the fire strength of the dark beam against drones?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-How much damages does an X hp drone against shields/Liberation ship? And how much damage does an other unit to that drone?
Quote from: virgilwDefault drones have a health of 4. This means ideally that 4 blaster shots are required to take them out. They heal, though, so it can be often be 5. When drone hits something it takes 4 points of damage and doles out 4 points of damage, per frame. For most structures, this destroys them in one frame and leave the enhanced drones still alive and able to carry along their path of destruction.
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-What is the hp (de)regeneration rate of drones when touching (anti)creeper?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-How much creeper does a phantom contain (or does this vary)?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
Does energy usage of reactor, beacon or tech dome increase when upgrading?
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
Wow, what a great and useful overview, thank you very much
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 26, 2011, 12:11:08 PMNo, this was changed before release. They now cause a finite, albeit large amount of damage to a drone in a given unit of time.Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-What is the fire strength of the dark beam against drones?
Instant kill.
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 26, 2011, 12:11:08 PMThis is not a bug. Every frame a drone is above a structure, the drone takes 4 damage and causes 5 damage to all structures present (25 for shields). As such, a drone with 4.01 health will survive the first frame with 0.01 health and cause damage a second time.Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-How much damages does an X hp drone against shields/Liberation ship? And how much damage does an other unit to that drone?Quote from: virgilwDefault drones have a health of 4. This means ideally that 4 blaster shots are required to take them out. They heal, though, so it can be often be 5. When drone hits something it takes 4 points of damage and doles out 4 points of damage, per frame. For most structures, this destroys them in one frame and leave the enhanced drones still alive and able to carry along their path of destruction.
I noticed however that 5+ HP drones seem to do twice the amount of damage to the LS, which I think is a bug.
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 26, 2011, 12:11:08 PMNot the intended question. Drones take damage over time when immersed in anti-creeper. Fast-moving drones also slow down. It would be useful to have data about both of these phenomena.Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
-What is the hp (de)regeneration rate of drones when touching (anti)creeper?
No regeneration when touching anti-Creeper.
0.09/sec in any other case.
Quote from: mthw2vc on June 26, 2011, 12:18:03 PM
They now cause a finite, albeit large amount of damage to a drone in a given unit of time.
Quote from: mthw2vc on June 26, 2011, 12:18:03 PM
This is not a bug. Every frame a drone is above a structure, the drone takes 4 damage and causes 5 damage to all structures present (25 for shields). As such, a drone with 4.01 health will survive the first frame with 0.01 health and cause damage a second time.
Quote from: mthw2vc on June 26, 2011, 12:18:03 PM
Not the intended question. Drones take damage over time when immersed in anti-creeper. Fast-moving drones also slow down. It would be useful to have data about both of these phenomena.
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 26, 2011, 12:40:49 PMAwww :(
[...] but let's discuss this in the beta board.
Quote from: UpperKEES on June 26, 2011, 12:40:49 PMOkay, maybe this indeed wasn't the best place to ask, but I'm glad you still answered.
Please note that this is a unit overview and doesn't contain all game mechanics info (and I don't intend to include it).
Quote from: florrat on June 26, 2011, 02:00:22 PMNo, there is a very slight bias that means the shield only causes 12 damage to the drone.
About the drone damage: Thanks for explaining: So a normal structure deals 4 damage to a drone, and a shield at full health will deal 16 damage to a strong drone (since it regenerated a bit in the meantime), right?
Quote from: mthw2vc on December 19, 2011, 11:17:24 PM
KEES, now that I look again, there are multiple errors in the tables... I'll post back later with the needed corrections.
Quote from: MadMag on January 25, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
Corrections done, you are back ;D
Quote from: Shubhamkar on February 15, 2013, 04:01:34 AM
... 250K-300K per missile ...
Quote from: Shubhamkar on February 15, 2013, 04:01:34 AM
Can anyone explain weapon damage? I was trying this using experiment. I put a total of 20K creeper in one CELL. It took 5 shots for the blaster to destroy it. (I wasn't using any fields.) In another Cell I put 1000k creeper (without fields). It took 4 missiles (launcher shots) to destroy it.
So, is the destruction power I assumed is correct? That is, 4K per shot of blaster or 12K-16K per second (without any upgrades), and 250K-300K per missile (without upgrades).
Thank You.
Quote from: Kithros on February 15, 2013, 08:32:51 AM
X will be the centre of a cell that the launcher targets (despite the missile actually hitting a specific subcell, launchers always target cells still - presumably an efficiency concern), and takes 500K damage.
Y takes 250K damage.
Add it up and there are 44 Ys, 44*250K + 500K = 11.5M total damage (if it does optimal damage), which is what the table shows.
EDIT AGAIN: I made a small mistake in what areas the launcher hit, fixed it.
Quote from: virgilw on March 04, 2011, 11:04:27 AM
Taking on the question of launcher vs blaster:
Note:
The terminology I use for distance is Cell and Subcell. A cell is 24x24 native pixels and a subcell is 8x8 native pixels. A cell consists of 9 subcells. Terrain always occupies cells. Creeper and fields operate on a subcell basis. Blasters fire at any subcells. Launchers fire at the center subcell of cells. Unit path finding is done from cell to cell with waypoints at the center of the cell. Line of sight is done on a cell basis, with the exception of blasters which do subcell based LOS.
Now, that that's out of the way:
Blasters and Launchers both damage to a range of 4 subcells (3 on each side of the targeted subcell... for a total of 7 subcells wide). When a blaster hits, it damages up to 4000 dense creeper. When a missile from a launcher hits, it damages up to 250000 dense creeper. So it is very true (like in CW1) that launchers are best deployed against a dense mass of creeper. Attached is an image of missile damage the frame after it hit. I have added the red subcell range indicator so you can see the range that is damaged. Also, just like in CW1, launchers target the deepest creeper in range and blasters target the closest.
Note that there is no explicit LOS done on creeper damage... however the limited range prevents damage on adjacent tunnels separated by terrain simply because the range isn't great enough. However, think about what I said for Blaster targeting vs Launcher targeting and you well see that you can damage things around corners with blasters.
Launchers have one other great ability... they can target things around corners. I use them quite often to target dense creeper near emitters even though my blasters aren't yet nearby. For instance, you can sometimes dig a side tunnel next to a compressed creeper chamber, park a launcher there, then open a single terrain cell at the top of the chamber. Your blasters (or shields, or repulsors) can hold the creeper back and your launchers can launch missiles back up the side tunnel, over, then down into the creeper abyss and finally reach their target creeper at the bottom of the chamber. The only restriction on the missile is that it can never leave the firing range of the Launcher.
Quote from: Grauniad on February 15, 2013, 10:14:54 AM
I think you are off with the total damage from a missile. If I recall correctly, the missile does *maximum* 250K damage, with it "radiating" out from the central impact point if that cell does not have sufficient creeper. Regardless, they definitely do *not* do 11.5M damage per shot.
Quote from: Shubhamkar on February 15, 2013, 04:01:34 AM
Can anyone explain weapon damage? I was trying this using experiment. I put a total of 20K creeper in one CELL. It took 5 shots for the blaster to destroy it. (I wasn't using any fields.) In another Cell I put 1000k creeper (without fields). It took 4 missiles (launcher shots) to destroy it.
So, is the destruction power I assumed is correct? That is, 4K per shot of blaster or 12K-16K per second (without any upgrades), and 250K-300K per missile (without upgrades).
Thank You.