This topic is for discussion of map #2547: Trigger v1.00 (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=2547)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/thumb.php?id=2547) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?mapid=2547)
Author: Arcady (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewmaps.php?author=Arcady)
Desc:
Puzzle map. Use various units and rules to trigger other units and rules to save the captives.
Need hints. Only was able to release the general. I mean Major C.
Can you be more specific about what exactly you're having trouble with?
I think what DH4F is referring to is the triggers are semi-random - there's not a logical progression of where creeper suddenly appears or not. It also takes a bit of time to see if the next random step causes failure or not. The combination means it's not so much a logic puzzle as a grind punctuated with save/restores.
Since there is only 1 way to win (I assume, since the options are so limited) giving hints to what you were aiming for would help - otherwise the player either has to figure out exactly what you were thinking or grind through the map with trial and error.
Just my 2c.
Brilliant map.
Got 1 problem with clearing the 2000M square in right of the diamond farm. In the end i just removed it with makers, but that took a very long time. Suppose it could have been done faster.
Quote from: BCC on October 19, 2013, 03:32:31 PM
I think what DH4F is referring to is the triggers are semi-random - there's not a logical progression of where creeper suddenly appears or not. It also takes a bit of time to see if the next random step causes failure or not. The combination means it's not so much a logic puzzle as a grind punctuated with save/restores.
Since there is only 1 way to win (I assume, since the options are so limited) giving hints to what you were aiming for would help - otherwise the player either has to figure out exactly what you were thinking or grind through the map with trial and error.
Just my 2c.
I more than appreciate the clearly written feedback. I can only see 3 places where it may not be obvious with how exactly to proceed, and all 3 of these are intentional.
The first area is the 5x5 area of red dots that go away and come back. No reason to save or reload here, just figure out the pattern.
The second is the red dot which prevents you from saving Major Catastrophe in the lower right corner. This is ambiguous as well, but that's to lend the hand with the third place where it may not be so obvious.
The third is the area bottom center with a path an enemy digger path leading to the left (and a capsule) and a Player digger path leading to the right. This is 100% intentional and I believe that if you look at this area you can get the idea without too much difficulty. I can see making a mistake here and having to reload, but again, that was intentional.
Any other area which may cause the player to reload are clearly obvious if you look and can be gotten around without too much difficulty.
If there's something I've missed or you can give me a good example, I'd appreciate it. Being the maker of the map certainly could make me prone to missing something that may be obvious to someone seeing it without all of the inside knowledge.
Quote from: DBN on October 19, 2013, 04:40:41 PM
Brilliant map.
Got 1 problem with clearing the 2000M square in right of the diamond farm. In the end i just removed it with makers, but that took a very long time. Suppose it could have been done faster.
Thanks.
In truth, you're not supposed to actually be able to get those crystals... I did make a mistake there and yes I know that it is possible. I'm currently working on fixing that and a couple of other exploits that I had missed near the end.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that everyone was using at least one of them and completely circumventing the 5x5 box of red dots...
im having problems with the part that continues after pressing Start Mission .. any hints ?
Quote from: darkniko on October 19, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
im having problems with the part that continues after pressing Start Mission .. any hints ?
That's not a very clear statement. Are you referring to something in this area?
(http://imageshack.com/a/img32/1787/t21c.png)
I got Capt. Crunch! I got Capt. Crunch! I got Capt. Crunch! ... ... ... and finally some salt and butter on Colonel what's his name.
huh, i just cant figure out this first part? please help thanks
Quote from: DanHall4Freedom on October 20, 2013, 12:04:56 AM
I got Capt. Crunch! I got Capt. Crunch! I got Capt. Crunch! ... ... ... and finally some salt and butter on Colonel what's his name.
Congratulations! And that would be Colonel Corn.
Quote from: PMouser on October 20, 2013, 02:35:41 AM
huh, i just cant figure out this first part? please help thanks
Can you please be more specific?
First, the map is well built, and trying to figure out what to do in the editor shows the impressive amount of time you put into the construction.
I'm stuck with both the lower middle area and the far left capsule without a clue to move forward.
The far left I actually dropped the blocking green dot down to 5k and then realized it wouldn't go any lower after quite a bit of time. Building a rift on top of that didn't work, so was hoping some trigger somewhere would possible change it, then focused on the center capsule.
In the lower middle area the creeper wave back&forth has so far been unstoppable and I am not sure if I'm approaching it incorrectly, have the wrong prep done, or it's timing. A hint to which direction to attack the middle capsule (clear out the room with green dots with an insane amount of vacuming? Create an AC backlog to the right to unleash right after the capsule is cleared somehow?) Without that I am unlikely to sink the time to test each one.
Even to know if I have to hit them in a certain order would remove a lot of the feeling that I'm wasting time trying to figure out the map through trial and error.
Quote from: BCC on October 20, 2013, 09:56:35 PM
I'm stuck with both the lower middle area and the far left capsule without a clue to move forward.
The far left I actually dropped the blocking green dot down to 5k and then realized it wouldn't go any lower after quite a bit of time. Building a rift on top of that didn't work, so was hoping some trigger somewhere would possible change it, then focused on the center capsule.
In the lower middle area the creeper wave back&forth has so far been unstoppable and I am not sure if I'm approaching it incorrectly, have the wrong prep done, or it's timing. A hint to which direction to attack the middle capsule (clear out the room with green dots with an insane amount of vacuming? Create an AC backlog to the right to unleash right after the capsule is cleared somehow?) Without that I am unlikely to sink the time to test each one.
Even to know if I have to hit them in a certain order would remove a lot of the feeling that I'm wasting time trying to figure out the map through trial and error.
I'll start with the room full of green dots.
Spoiler
In order to progress through this room, you will need to get several enemy dig packets through to take out the solid terrain.
Spoiler
Take a closer look at the amount of anti-creeper in each dot and reflect on how the very first enemy dig packet of the mission was allowed to do its job.
Spoiler
When the anti-creeper dots are changed to creeper they will allow enemy dig packets through, but not your packets. You will need to prepare for this.
Spoiler
(http://imageshack.com/a/img62/2383/i668.png)
Concerning the capsule on the left side:
Spoiler
Let the enemy dig packets open the left-side passage. You can safely ignore the normal terrain passage going to the right as you will only be able to open one.
Spoiler
Once the passage to the left has been opened by enemy dig packets, the creeper dot blocking your access to the far right capsule will disappear and you will be able to use the rifts in each corner to obtain the last two capsules.
Let me know if this is still unclear. Feel free email me a screenshot of your game if you would like me to give you more specific advice.
I just cant figure out the room just to the right of ship, i cant use the rift it is buried
Firstly, special thanks for "special thanks" in funny teletype. :)
I was quite embarrassed.
Very hard and smart map! So many new ideas...
Thank You for creative work and congratulation!
Best regards,
yum234
P.S. And one more thing - very nice when in "CW2 WORLD" friendly atmosphere!
In the opening text, I mentioned rules that may not be very well known about the game. These rules are:
Spoiler
1) the maximum amount of creeper or anti-creeper in a single sub-cell is 2,147,480,000. If more of the same type is added it will flip to its opposite type. Anti-creeper will turn to creeper and creeper will turn to anti-creeper.
Moving creeper is not usually an option, but anti-creeper can be moved with Makers. I will note that in order for it to work correctly, the Maker will need to charge some and one of the 'burst' options used. Either burst 10% or burst all.
If a Maker is simply set to produce, it will not work correctly. It will change to a negative value and the graphic will disappear. You can still use the burst option though you will not be able to see it. The creeper level indicator will still show the amount present.
Spoiler
2) A field that is set to move creeper from one place to another can move creeper from inside a solid object (terrain or a shield) to an open area, but it can not move it into a solid object.
Quote from: PMouser on October 21, 2013, 12:19:14 AM
I just cant figure out the room just to the right of ship, i cant use the rift it is buried
About the blocked rift:
Spoiler
Leave it be for now. You will need to get an enemy dig packet to open that solid terrain.
Your first step of the map should be
Spoiler
As noted above, you will need an enemy packet to reach that. The enemy packet can only originate from the enemy gateway. The enemy packet can not penetrate the anti-creeper blocking it. You will need to figure out a way to allow that enemy packet through to open things up for you.
Spoiler
Move your maker onto the anti-creeper blocking the enemy gateway. It will have just enough health to reach the anti-creeper before it explodes. When it explodes, it will release all of its stored anti-creeper and flip the standing anti-creeper to normal creeper, which in turn allows the dig packets out.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img823/7544/v5b9.png)
Quote from: yum-forum on October 21, 2013, 06:44:02 AM
Firstly, special thanks for "special thanks" in funny teletype. :)
I was quite embarrassed.
Very hard and smart map! So many new ideas...
Thank You for creative work and congratulation!
Best regards,
yum234
P.S. And one more thing - very nice when in "CW2 WORLD" friendly atmosphere!
A small thing, but well deserved. Do you realize that your work accounts for more than 17% of all of the maps? And what's more, most are a good challenge.
Quote from: Arcady on October 21, 2013, 07:16:15 AM
Quote from: yum-forum on October 21, 2013, 06:44:02 AM
Firstly, special thanks for "special thanks" in funny teletype. :)
I was quite embarrassed.
Very hard and smart map! So many new ideas...
Thank You for creative work and congratulation!
Best regards,
yum234
P.S. And one more thing - very nice when in "CW2 WORLD" friendly atmosphere!
A small thing, but well deserved. Do you realize that your work accounts for more than 17% of all of the maps? And what's more, most are a good challenge.
WOW! You estimated my contribution in "CW2 WORLD"! I tried very hard to change in good direction it atmosphere.
I like this genious game!
Some time ago one our colleague (good map creator) joked that if I create 1000 maps, I can get CW3 free of charge! :)
1000 maps target is too high, but hulf of CW3 I will try... ;)
One question to all: when CM charging and rich 7.5m how push it to charge more (30m or 60m)?
i think you mean the storage in the maker unit?
it's made larger by range upgrades
hope that was what you were after 8)
I would like to know about the first red dots. I used my first anit creeper to open up the square but I can't figure it out from there. Upgraded my pacet speed. help ??? ???
Quote from: teknotiss on October 21, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
i think you mean the storage in the maker unit?
it's made larger by range upgrades
hope that was what you were after 8)
Yes, storage. Upgrade range of weapon?
Quote from: redbull69 on October 21, 2013, 07:15:26 PM
I would like to know about the first red dots. I used my first anit creeper to open up the square but I can't figure it out from there. Upgraded my pacet speed. help ??? ???
If you are referring to the 5x5 room with the red dots which dis/appear, you should
Spoiler
use the Technets to upgrade Packet Speed and Decrease Unit Cost. You should have just enough Technets to do so. There is also a certain pattern which you should follow when placing Shields in that room.
I successfully passed that room by
Spoiler
pausing the game, using the 'n' hotkey to advance gameplay frame-by-frame, then I placed the shield in the proper square the moment the red dot disappeared.
If you need further help, the pattern is
Spoiler
5 3 1 2 4
10 8 6 7 9
15 13 11 12 14
20 18 16 17 19
25 23 21 22 24
Good luck.
You don't need to go through the room with the red dots ;)
Interesting map thanks.
Quote from: RichieRich on October 22, 2013, 05:50:16 AM
You don't need to go through the room with the red dots ;)
Interesting map thanks.
True enough, however, this was an exploit that I had missed.
Quote from: yum-forum on October 22, 2013, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on October 21, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
i think you mean the storage in the maker unit?
it's made larger by range upgrades
hope that was what you were after 8)
Yes, storage. Upgrade range of weapon?
yes 8)
Quote from: teknotiss on October 22, 2013, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: yum-forum on October 22, 2013, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on October 21, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
i think you mean the storage in the maker unit?
it's made larger by range upgrades
hope that was what you were after 8)
Yes, storage. Upgrade range of weapon?
yes 8)
Thank You. I tryed and it helps! :)
Amazing work on this map, the first oh I don't know... 500 times I bloody HATED it, but when I finally worked out the proper sequence for one section it was a massive shout for joy followed by much swearing as I screwed up the next section and had to restart.
Truly a challenging map, especially if you avoid reading any hints/spoilers in this map or going into the editor! Icing on the cake.. I managed to beat my favorite map maker's time (Yum234), and he's made a few maps I've rage quit on, so I'm a happy boy. XD
Look forward to seeing more maps from you, just as eagerly as I always await maps from Yum234! :)
Quote from: Tromain on October 23, 2013, 11:38:33 AM
Amazing work on this map, the first oh I don't know... 500 times I bloody HATED it, but when I finally worked out the proper sequence for one section it was a massive shout for joy followed by much swearing as I screwed up the next section and had to restart.
Truly a challenging map, especially if you avoid reading any hints/spoilers in this map or going into the editor! Icing on the cake.. I managed to beat my favorite map maker's time (Yum234), and he's made a few maps I've rage quit on, so I'm a happy boy. XD
Look forward to seeing more maps from you, just as eagerly as I always await maps from Yum234! :)
Well Done! I'm glad it turned out to be such a victory and that you had fun playing it.